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IS IT INSTINCTIVE HUMAN NATURE TO CREATE A GOD OR RELIGION?

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IS IT INSTINCTIVE HUMAN NATURE TO CREATE A GOD OR RELIGION?


[+] serious ballot by Jinn_the_Kafir
created Sat May 29, 04

For example (to be hypothetical), lets say a large group of children were abandoned on a large island. They had never been tought anything about any God or religious faith. Assuming these children survive into adulthood, procreate, blah, blah, blah. Do you think they would eventually develop and create some type of religious faith of their own, super natural beings and all? (Please don't be influenced by the ficticious story Lord of the Flies)

YES it is instinctive to create an idol or God to worship
NO, they would become evil and violent and kill each other off
They would live productive moral lives without a religion
Two guys it suits would eventually find them and teach them the Bible
NO. It isn't instinctive but they might find God.
Yes. Mammals look for a dominate male figure.
YES, If it cannot be explained, it gets worshiped
NO, they wouldn't bother
Er, we have religion so it must be human nature.
only for fun


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COMMENTS:
The rise of religion came with the settling of socities. Only when you can breath and settle down can you worship a god. Nomands could never find the time or energy to worship.
by doen5167 on Sat May 29, 04 7:06pm [+]

People have a natural urge to explain things, when they can't come up with a scientific reason they use religion. That and the whole fear of death thing.
by herzog on Sat May 29, 04 10:28pm [+]

is it instinctive human nature to hate God?
by NHBman on Tue Jun 01, 04 4:33pm [+]

Religious myth usually mirrors the cultural values of the particular society being examined. "God" can represent a father figure type of singularity that gives psychological comfort to the human in distress.
by xxxxxxxx on Tue Jun 01, 04 10:15pm [+]

Many ancient Gods were not worshipped to as is always being misrepresented.They were used a metaphorical system of understanding in regards to science, the universe and the transpersonal, archetypal dimensions of the psyche.The crap that is taught that they were merely gods or tales of superstition is baloney that other agendas(religious, scientific materialism, military ) are devoted to misrepresenting.The ancient systems of understanding are again being rediscovered as the only true science that is complete and explanatory.
The scientific Establishment continued the tradition of the church and monarchy of leading humanity into the dark ages but now things may change rapidly.People want REAL understanding more and more and are mobilising against the ignorance of the "order" of conventional society and its myths and suppression of truth
by bigmonkeynuts on Fri Jun 04, 04 2:45am [+]

As we venture beyond the biographical events of early childhood, we enter into a realm of experience associated with the trauma of biological birth. Entering this new territory, we start experiencing emotions and physical sensations of great intensity, often surpassing anything we might consider humanly possible. Here we encounter emotions at two polar extremes, a strange intertwining of birth and death, as if these two aspects of the human experience were somehow one. Along with a sense of life-threatening confinement comes a determined struggle to free oneself and survive.

Stanislav Grof is a pioneer in the application of the psychedelic experience to clinical psychiatry, and in the mapping of the human psyche. His principal contribution to human psychology seems to be his research into how our experiences in the womb, and during the birth process, affect our life experiences as adults.

During many LSD sessions, involving both himself and patients, he noticed that most people eventually spontaneously re-lived their pre-birth experiences — even back to being a sperm struggling towards its goal, at the same time as being the egg waiting for the triumphant sperm. Their fusing would be experienced as a titanic explosion of creative energy, followed by the mysterious differentiation of cells that forms the foetus. Many experiences of foetal life and birth related by patients in psychedelic therapy were later confirmed objectively by medical records, parents and adults present at the birth. Without prior knowledge, people established through LSD sessions very specific details about their mother's lives while pregnant and various events or complications surrounding their birth.

Grof discovered profound connections between the physical experiences of the womb and of birth, and later manifestations of aberrant behaviour and psychology, as well as intense spiritual experiences. He called the complex emotional constellations that threaded through the key experiences of an individual's life COEX systems (for "systems of COndensed EXperience"). An individual will usually have several COEX systems in their unconscious mind, each one dominated by a major theme, e.g. humiliation, claustrophobia, or rejection (there are also positive COEX systems, however). As a result of his research, covering both LSD experiences and physical birth processes, he concluded that a major, possibly fundamental, part of each COEX system is a corresponding stage in foetal development and birth. He called the residues of these experiences Basic Perinatal Matrices (BPMs). He hypothesizes that many traumatic or ecstatic life experiences involve a re-invocation of BPMs whose dominant themes resonate with the specific experience. More radically, he suggests that certain compulsive or obsessive traits (e.g. the repetitive seeking-out of humiliating experiences) are governed by BPMs — we search, consciously or not, for situations that re-invoke certain birth processes, which consequently augment the corresponding COEX system. He feels it is necessary to fully re-experience, and integrate, such BPMs in order to resolve the conflict patterns they have engendered.

He divides the BPMs into four successive stages, each one representing a specific constellation of motifs (represented on LSD by vivid hallucinations and emotions), each one a basis for an ongoing COEX system. I shall briefly describe his definitions of these stages, and add comments regarding their relevance to this essay as appropriate.

* BPM I — The Amniotic Universe: Often associated with the passive, oceanic ecstasy of classical mysticism; every need being instantly fulfilled, floating in a warm, comfortable aquatic environment. However, recollections of various toxins in the mother's body (alcohol, cigarettes, spicy foods, 'toxic' emotions like anger or bitterness) can manifest as feelings of suffocation, agonizing physical pains, muscular spasms, the felt presence of insidious evil entities or alien intrusions.
* BPM II — Cosmic Engulfment & No Exit: Finds its basis in the onset of the birth process, the realisation that the bliss of the Amniotic Universe is about to end, but without any idea of what will follow. The uterine cervix is still closed, but contractions have begun, and various hormonal and chemical changes are taking place. "The contractions, closed cervix, and the unfavorable chemical changes combine to create a painful and life-threatening environment from which the fetus can sense no possibility of escape. It is no wonder the death and birth are so closely related in this matrix." Grof relates the common occurrence of paranoid ideas during the reliving of this matrix (radiation, evil forces, secret organizations, extraterrestrial influences) to the chemical changes of the onset of contractions, which may be perceived by the unborn child as disease or intoxication. He also relates the pessimism of the existentialists to this process, noting that Sartre called one of his most famous theatrical statements of crushing anxiety No Exit.
There are two specific quotes here that may shed light on the key experiential themes of this essay:
As these threatening experiences continue and deepen, the person may have a vision of a gigantic whirlpool and feel in the middle of it, being drawn relentlessly to its center.
Experiences of BPM II are best characterized by the triad: fear of death, fear of never coming back, and fear of going crazy. I have already discussed the predominance of the theme of death; this often includes the sense that one's own life is seriously threatened. Once this feeling is present, the mind is capable of fabricating any number of stories that provide a rational 'explanation' of why this is happening — an impending heart attack or stroke, an 'overdose' when a psychedelic drug is involved, or many others. The cellular memory of birth can emerge into present consciousness with such a force that the person believes beyond any doubt that real biological death is possible and actually imminent.
And, echoing Kalkinath & Vishnvanath's advice about 'relaxing into the fear', Grof states: "Paradoxically, the fastest way out of this situation is to fully accept the hopelessness of the predicament, which really means conscious acceptance of the original feelings of the fetus."
* BPM III — The Death-Rebirth Struggle: A continuance of the above process, although now there is a little 'light at the end of the tunnel', as the very apt cliché goes. "In the previous matrix, the cervix was closed; now it is open, allowing the fetus to move through the birth canal. Although the fight for survival continues, there is now a sense of hope, a belief that there will be an end to the struggle." Reliving this process involves a titanic experience of pressure (due to the vast pressure of the pelvic opening on the child's head and body), and the intense physical proximity between the child and the mother often results in an oscillating identification between the child and the mother. This frequently involves intense sexual arousal, due to the involvement of the genital area. Grof believes this to be a stage of violently merging contradictions, where death is intertwined with sexuality, pleasure with pain, aggression with love — he terms this experience "Dionysian" or "volcanic" ecstasy, as opposed to the passive bliss of BPM I.
* BPM IV — The Death-Rebirth Experience: A traumatic yet triumphant culmination of previous sufferings and struggles, resulting in an experience of total ego annihilation. Their is an intense purgation that bursts through the pits of despair and violence of BPMs II & III. There follows a sense of deep relaxation, serenity and quiet excitement. Grof warns that an incomplete re-experiencing of this stage, due to complications in BPM III, may result in a hyperactive mania; the cosmic insights and feelings of triumph at this stage can manifest in people wildly proclaiming their revelations to others and making grandiose plans to change the world.
Although Grof occasionally runs dangerously close to a reductionist position (intense emotional experiences in adult life are nothing but the re-emergence of perinatal matrices), the primal nature of the birth process does indicate that experiences of it may be of great importance in assessing and understanding many archetypal human experiences of death-rebirth.
by bigmonkeynuts on Fri Jun 04, 04 2:48am [+]

Only the most willful and intelligent humans are capable of living with imagining a god.
by thc2883 on Mon Jun 07, 04 3:09pm [+]

725cd

This the definition paranoia: A tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others.

Anything seem familiar?

Schizophrenia is the "big brother" of paranoia!
by Jinn_the_Kafir on Sun Jun 13, 04 2:28pm [+]

It does appear to be instinctive. Now the subsequent question would be: Why is this? A divine spark? An anthropologic phenomena?

Haven't heard anything convincing either way.
by Cathexis on Fri Jun 25, 04 4:23pm [+]

What would convince you either way? Somebody else's experience?
by cretin_slap on Mon Oct 25, 04 7:41am [+]

We have religion don't we?
What a dumbass question.
by wideheadofknowledge on Thu Nov 25, 04 6:33pm [+]

Some of us don't have a religion.
by zorra on Thu Nov 25, 04 6:47pm [+]

Clearly,something's happening here, and what it is ain't exactly clear, but this vacuum is filled with all sorts of dust.
by xxxxxxxx on Fri Feb 11, 05 4:57pm [+]

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