COMMENTS:
Horrifyingly, there is a fair bit of evidence that says so. The fact that almost all planes hijacked in the USA are intercepted within 15 minutes, yet those were allowed to carry on unimpeded for over an hour is pretty scary.
And the fact that about 7 of the hi-jackers turned up alive and well after 9/11.
A very sensitive question ZIG,but I do believe that it was a fabrication to gain support from American citizens to go to war.
As time goes on, more and more evidence is emerging and indicating that this was setup.
I can no longer put anything past the Bush Administration.
Thank you all for not (so far) pelting me with rotten tomatoes for daring to ask this.
I put the same question to a different forum in October 2001 and the insults were deafening.
So maybe the saying about hindsight often being 20/20 has a ring of truth to it.
by zig on Mon Aug 02, 04 10:07am
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Is that what the voices in your head are telling you?
Too early to deal with conspiracy nuts. I'll come back.
Well hey mindy, maybe so!
More like what numerous new reports coming to the surface are telling me - many things that the media hasn't bothered to touch. But I guess if it's not on FOX News it can't be true, can it?
by zig on Mon Aug 02, 04 12:25pm
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herzog: Some of us are already wide awake.
by zig on Mon Aug 02, 04 12:26pm
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herzog. Once you've woken up, how would explain away Project Northwoods? In case you have never studied it, it was a plan to bomb American civilian planes and blame it on Fidel Castro in order to declare war on Cuba.
This is nothing new in history. Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Northwoods, Pearl Harbor, Reichstag Fire, The Lusitania, The Maine.
Get used to it, cha'mone.
Cretin: that's your proof that 911 was a hoax? Some 40 year old plan involving cuba? Are you sure there aren't any leftover plans from the civil war you want to drudge up to prove your point?
BTW, operation northwoods had nothing to do with hijackings or crashing planes into buildngs.
Burden of proof is still in your corner, and so far you have nothing.
Are you serious?You can't be serious!I was in New York when 9/11 happened and there is absolutely no doubt it was real.I can still remember the smell of jet liner fuel that remained in the air for days.Next your going to tell me that the Jews knew that 9/11 was going to happen.
Corrupt: I don't mean that the actual events didn't happen, because we all saw how real they were. Like we could ever forget. But the perpetrators, the planners of this monstrous murderous act may not be who you think they are at all.
by zig on Mon Aug 02, 04 7:23pm
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Then who ZIG who attacked America on 9/11 if it was not Bin Laden?Really who else could benefit from an event like 9/11 besides Bin Laden?
I'm going to guess zigs answer: using my amazing supernatural powers of prediction I'm going to say you place the blame on the jews or bush, or possibly a jew/bush conspiracy.
All these conspiracy theories seem to blame one or the other. Irrational hatred manifests itself in many ways. Some people go out and burn down a synagogue, other just blame the jews for every thing that's gone wrong in their life.
I present exhibit A.
The anonymous antisemite, a very common breed.
1) jews do care what happened on 911, they weren't the ones dancing in the streets. And a number of jewish americans were killed in the attacks, the notion that they all failed to show up for work that day was a myth.
2) I'm not jewish, I just despise antisemitism, and antisemites.
3) it's 'untermenschen' not 'untermenchin'. Hmm, and ignorant antisemite, how typical.
All I have to say to that last comment is what the fuck...
Conspiracy Theory nutters and their crackpot theories are easily refuted
To date, there has never been anything revealed to the public about how the U.S. government KNOWS that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda were the actual perpetrators of 9/11.
No Arabs were on the planes,If using fake IDs how would they be traced so quickly.how did they have all their guns , knives, boxcutters , gas if theyd been searched.Gas masks, electronic shit etc in the luggage ?
They got on board with fake IDs but had their real passports with them ?
how come their passports survived crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers
The names given of hijackers are people who are alive and well
the controlled demoliton of the WTC buildings
No plane hit the pentagon
Although this seems to be out in left field, you can't rule it out without considering it. I think if the Bush administration knew they could get away with something like this, they would certainly go ahead with it if it could benefit them in the end. Conspiracies have been uncovered before.
I'm going to guess zigs answer: using my amazing supernatural powers of prediction I'm going to say you place the blame on the jews or bush, or possibly a jew/bush conspiracy. - herzog
Absolutely not and you do me an injustice herzog, but I'll let it slide off.
I see it as going much higher than that. It's not one race or religion to blame...far from it. The finger-pointing going on right now towards this race or that religion is just an another example of the Hegelian Dialectic, it's a ruse, and we shouldn't fall for it because that's exactly what they want. And yes, it is a conspiracy in the true sense, not a conspiracy theory. We are witnessing a coup d'etat.
by zig on Tue Aug 03, 04 2:36am
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Really who else could benefit from an event like 9/11 besides Bin Laden? - Corrupt
Corrupt, here's a clue: Bin Laden once worked for the CIA. And no, I don't think it was the CIA who planned this, nor do I necessarily believe that bin Laden is still a CIA asset. The CIA - for all their power - are still the foot soldiers. And 9/11 was just the beginning.
by zig on Tue Aug 03, 04 2:54am
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It's up to each and every one of us to discover the truth for ourselves - or not - as the case may be.
by zig on Tue Aug 03, 04 2:58am
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The Hegelian Dialect ploy is used quite a lot to divide people and send them into battle against each other. It seems the elite are so clever that they only ever have one plan: divide and rule. And we seem to fall for it every time. That was Jinn the Liar's MO and it is the tactic employed by lots of people on here. They try to make us think that somehow parts of humanity are directly opposed when in fact we are one.
anonymous
C S .is correct. We are all One you piece of motherload *&%## dooshbag
We is all brothers and sisters and connected and gotta stand together u anal jack*&%%$
peace my brother
"Then who ZIG who attacked America on 9/11 if it was not Bin Laden?Really who else could benefit from an event like 9/11 besides Bin Laden? "
Let's think about this for a minute. Cheney and Bush have long been involved in oil. An attack like 9/11 would put the US on the offensive and would gain the much needed public support they need to invade a country like Iraq. There they can install their puppet government and in turn get economic benefits in the oil industry. They had no problem sending over 1000 troops into the country to be killed for oil, what's another 3000 people in the home land?
It is far fetched but is most definitely a possibility that should not be overlooked.
people like you cause these conspiracy theorys that have abslulutely no evidence to back it up
correct.The wild conspiracy theory that muslims did it has not been proven.It has been proven on the other hand that the official one is bogus
herzog after reading through all of this, and your negative comments of little or nonsensical substance, I can only suggest to you to go and get yourself an education.
herzog, something else occured to me and that you may have actually been one of the conspirators of 9/11 and now you're trying to cover up your dirty deeds.
It is well know that the guilty attack the truth with an angry vengance when they have been exposed, so maybe that's what I can expect from you in reply to this comment.
Come on herzog, lets hear it, attack the truth once again and show us your true colours.
I have heard all these conspiracy theories before.These theories are ancient and get recycled everytime a major country goes to war.It's always the rich elites or the military industrial complex or corporations or world wide socialism or some other nonsense that is behind the reasons for war.Come on,how can anybody believe these or any conspiracy theories.
well.maybe we wouldnt.But when so many insiders, witnesses, public records under the freedom of info act etc etc ..... We'd be in serious denial otherwise
Corrupt: Forget the 'conspiracy theories.' Have you ever researched the background of these events for yourself? If not, start with the money. Follow the money trails and see who got what when, and how much, then come back and tell us it's all a conspiracy 'theory.'
by zig on Tue Aug 03, 04 1:58pm
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'your negative comments of little or nonsensical substance'
That's rich, coming from a conspiracy nut. Negative like it's all the evil jews? Or nonsensical like there never was any hijacking?
My point of view is based on factual evidence, yours is based on wishful thinking.
I think I prefer guests opinion on this, he's at least honest about his hatred, he doesn't try to disguise it with some flimsy pseudo intellectual nonsense.
It seems unlikely, but it's theoretically possible.
As has been mentioned, there are some very strange circumstances surrounding the whole thing.
In the end it seems to have benefited only Israel and the United States' strategic position. It has also allowed the government to introduce legislation and do things that the American public would not previously have tolerated.
It wouldn't be the first time in History that a government, or part of a government has done something underhanded against it's own population for strategic advantage.
Ok ZIG I will do that,do you have any idea where I should start?Any specific websites that produce solid evidence to support your views etc?
I think it boils down to the issue of trust. If you, personally, do not, or cannot trust your government - then EVERYTHING could be a conspiracy. And by 'trust', I mean trust that they are doing their jobs, not necessarily doing the right thing.
I trust that the constituents of my government are working. Some might work, or appear to work less than others, but that's not the point. The point is, when the 9/11 commission report came out, I trust that it is not a work of fiction. I trust that they did in fact go through 2.5 million pages of documents, and conducted more than 1,200 interviews. I am reading the 9/11 report right now. I HIGHLY suggest that everyone read it too - it's written in an easy-to-understand fashion. And, so far, it is very informative.
Given the amount of data I have now, I have no reason to suspect a conspiracy to fool America into supporting an endless war. Furthermore, I think it would take someone with severe mental illness (I.E. Manic depression or schizophrenia) to conclude that it would be a good idea for America to support an endless war, and to contribute to or mastermind the alleged hoax. Let's call him Agent X, since he doesn't appear to exist.
Unless I get new, verifiable information, I will never believe that the events of 9/11 were anything more than a terrorist attack initiated by Osama Bin Laden and carried out by his foreign-born supporters. (I also have more reading to do)
And, Keitsheen - that is not true. The closest any of the flights came to having fighter jets in the air to intercept them was the first one, American Airlines Flight 11. The jets were airborne about six minutes AFTER the plane hit the World Trade Center. NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector) had 9 minutes advance warning for the first plane, no advance notice on the second, no advance notice on the third, and no advance notice on the fourth. (9/11 Commission Report, pg. 31) If you read the report, you'll have a clearer understanding of why that was.
Corrupt - Two websites I'd recommend for starters are: From the Wilderness.com and the Center for Cooperative Research (Cooperative Research .org)
Here's a compete timeline to begin with, going into all the deals and technicalities behind the scenes leading up to 9/11.
http:// www. cooperativeresearch. org/ timeline. jsp?timeline= complete_911 _timeline (Close all spaces)
Keep an open mind and question everything you read. Do your own research as well.
by zig on Wed Aug 04, 04 3:02am
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These attacks on the facts about 9/11 boil down to this: It's all nonsensical.
Attacks on the official 9/11 story boils down to this: NORAD did not follow standard procedures for dealing with hi-jacked airplanes; the WTC buildings were clearly demolished as evidenced by the explosions recorded by TV news cameras eminating from the building; PNAC that stated that a catelysing event would be needed in order to get the public behind the planned wars of onquest in the middle east, in accordance with Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilisations.
What would you rather investigate for yourself?
Conspiracy theories are nonsense or the above facts?
Seven of the nineteen "hijackers" are alive and well. They were victims of identity theft, some of whom had had their passports stolen. They were interviewed by several news organizations including the Telegraph of England. Heres an excerpt from David Harrisons Telegraph story entitled:
Revealed: The Men With Stolen Identities:
"Their names were flashed around the world as suicide hijackers who carried out the attacks on America. But yesterday four innocent men told how their identities had been stolen. The men - all from Saudi Arabia - spoke of their shock at being mistakenly named by the FBI as suicide terrorists. None of the four was in the United States on September 11 and all are alive in their home country. The Telegraph obtained the first interviews with the men since they learnt that they were on the FBI's list of hijackers who died in the crashes in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. All four said that they were "outraged" to be identified as terrorists. One has never been to America and another is a Saudi Airlines pilot who was on a training course in Tunisia at the time of the attacks. Saudi Airlines said it was considering legal action against the FBI for seriously damaging its reputation and that of its pilots."
CNN revealed that FBI director Robert Mueller openly admitted that some of the identities of the 9-11 hijackers are in question due to identity theft. Heres what CNN reported on September 21:
FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication
The following article is a remake of http://www. mujahideen.fsnet.co.uk/wtc/wtc -hijackers. htm which lists many of the media articles dealing with the hijackers who were not hijackers.
herzog, I knew that I could count on you to come up with some bullshit like that and yet I have'nt seen any facts supporting your claims at all.
It appears to me that you and some other users are the hard evidence to the rest of us here of how brainwashed a person can become when losing touch with reality from believing the bullshit propaganda that the news media throws at you every day.
I would suggest that you get away from your TV, get out into the real world and start to experience life and all it's harsh realities.
And speaking of reality go to my ballot 45363 to see for yourself what has been going on in our world, there is an indirect relationship to to the subject here, but then maybe you shouldn't considering the brainwashed state of mind that you are in.
You just wouldn't be capable of contributing some genuine opinions of any use to anybody.
Maybe a book on the power of positive thinking would help, providing that you can think positively to begin with.
I have my doubt's on your capabilities of ever achieving such a feat, but there just might be a slight remote possibility that you could suprise us all and show us that you are capable of intelligent thinking.
Good Luck
Cretin, norad did respond, they sent fighters to intercept the jets. They simply got there too late. This is a fact, don't bother disputing it.
Alien: fact #1, video tape evidence of two planes crashing into the wtc. fact #2 more video tape evidence from the airport of arab men boarding those flights. Fact #3 voice recordings from one of the flights describing exactly what happened. Fact #4 bin laden took credit for the attack. Fact #5 evidence that the hijackers had attended flight school in the US years prior to 911.
There you go. These are real 'facts'. Facts are not simply something you really really want to come true, they have to actually have hard evidence to back them. I have hard evidence, you do not. Therefore I am dealing in reality, you are dealing in fantasy and wishful thinking. Go ahead, try to prove me wrong, try to come up with some facts to back your insane conspiracy.
One video.Grainy, indiscernible of 5 men.
Khalid al-Mihdhar who is supposedly shown in this video has been proven to be still alive
It did not have a date or time stamp
Osama confession
The video was shown on the news with English subtitles. Bin Laden's voice was so barely audible that even viewers in Arab nations had to rely on the Pentagons translated subtitles! An obedient American news media accepted the Pentagon story and translation without question. A few Arab media whores were trotted out to vouch for the tapes authenticity. On December 20, 2001, the German TV show Monitor (the "60 Minutes of Germany) found the translation of the "confession" video to be not only inaccurate, but even "manipulative. Dr. Abdel El M. Husseini and Professor Gernot Rotter made an independent translation and accused the White House translators of "writing a lot of things that they wanted to hear but cannot be heard on the tape no matter how many times you listen to it.Even more compelling than the revelations of the European press are the actual images of the "confession video". Every photo previously taken of Osama Bin laden shows gaunt facial features and a long thin nose. The Pentagon video of Bin Laden clearly shows a man with full facial features and a wide nose. Examine the pictures side-by-side for yourself if you don't believe it. The differences in facial features will jump right out at you.The figure claimed to be Osama appears to write notes with his right hand, yet the FBI's description of Osama indicates he is left-handed. The man in the video wears a ring which does not appear on other confirmed photos of Osama.
in fact Osama Bin Laden denies his involvement in the US terrorist acts. The Pakistani Khabrein daily with reference to some Taliban sources quotes him as saying that the terrorist act was committed by some American terrorist group and that he had nothing to do with it.
FBI Director Robert Mueller says Flight 77's data recorder provides altitude, speed, headings and other information, but the voice recorder contains nothing useful.
The FBI's field agents are "the good guys". It's the ass kissing, spineless careerists at the top who have corrupted the agency. In the critical weeks and months leading up to 9/11, numerous clues were picked up by loyal FBI field agents. Some of these agents were so alarmed at what they thought was an unfolding terror plot, that they tried to convince their superiors to investigate deeper. These agents were either ignored, threatened, or fired.
FBI SPECIAL AGENT .ROBERT WRIGHT The public interest law firm Judicial Watch is representing agent Wright. Wright claims that he was met with retaliation and threats from his bosses and from the Justice Department who told him they wanted his probes to go no further. Wright maintains that if his investigation had been allowed to continue, the attacks could have been prevented.
FBI AGENT COLEEN ROWLEY . The gutsy Rowley wrote a 13 page letter to FBI Director Robert Mueller in which she actually accuses the director of her own agency of "a subtle skewing of the facts". Rowley's letter also charged that the agency refused to react to evidence of a pending terror plot. According to Rowley the FBI's obstruction was so blatant that her and some of her fellow agents jokingly speculated that key FBI personnel must have been moles working for Osama Bin laden! Rowleys main point of contention was the agencys failure to go after Zacharias Moussoui, the 20th hijacker, even after his flight school instructor reported his suspicious behavior to the FBI. Moussoui you will recall was the French Algerian who couldnt speak French to his flight school instructor.
FBI AGENT SIBEL EDMONDS . Edmonds was an FBI wiretap translator. She claims that another FBI translator was working for the Mossad and that the Mossad also tried to recruit Edmonds to make phony translations for the purpose of misdirecting investigations. When agent Edmonds refused, the Mossad threatened her safety! When she brought these allegations to the attention of her superiors, she was fired for being disruptive. The Washington Post briefly reported this story without mentioning the name of nation that tried to recruit Edmonds. But The Post did reveal that Edmonds and the other translator trace their ethnicity to this certain "Middle Eastern" country. Agent Sibel Edmunds is not an Arab. Edmonds is jewish. Therefore we know that the Middle Eastern nation which the Post chose not to name is Israel. Sibel Edmonds deserves a lot of credit for defying the Mossad and blowing the whistle to her superiors. Instead, she was fired for her patriotic efforts
FBI agent JOHN M COLE program manager for FBI intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan, and Afgahinstan. In the same Washington Post story about Edmunds, it was reported that Cole also wrote a letter to FBI chief Mueller warning him about lax security procedures in the hiring of translators.
Dedicated agents such as Wright, Rowley, Cole, Edmonds and others who have spoken anonymously, had to be stopped from going after Muslim terrorists. If not so obstructed, they would in time come to discover that they werent really Al Qaeda terrorists Not only were investigations blocked before 9-11, but they continue to be blocked after 9-11. The cover up is so blatant that members of both the House and Senate Intelligence committees complains directly to CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft. The Los Angeles Times reported:
"Lawmakers leading the investigation of intelligence failures surrounding the 9-11 attacks are increasingly concerned that the CIA and Justice department are actively impeding their efforts....The flare up centers on obstacles congressional investigators say the agencies have strewn in their path."
That's exactly what FBI agents Wright, Rowley, Edmunds, and Cole said happened to them when they tried to investigate before the attacks!
The FBI is under the jurisdiction of yet another Zionist named Michael Chertoff Chertoff is the Director of the Criminal Division of the US Justice Department. FBI chief Mueller has to answer to Chertoff.
And then there is Paul O'Neill.In August 2001, John P. O'Neill resigned from his post over George W. Bush's policy on terrorism and Osama bin Laden. Specifically, O'Neill's department was told to "back off" their bin Laden and al Qaeda investigations while the Bush administration negotiated with the Taliban. O'Neill became the security chief of the World Trade Center - where he died during the events of 9/11
Sure...and Elvis and Jimmie Hoffa were flying the planes.
herzog you dumb ass, the facts are there right before your very eyes all around you and yet you are still to blind to see,
Nearly everyone else can see, but you and a few brainwashed other users.
I don't need to present any facts for this very reason, so get away from that brainwashing TV and start experiencing the real world without a negative mindset.
Conspiracy theories can be fun can't they. Think about hard it is for 2 people to keep a secret, now think about how many people would be 'in' on this secret, its not possible for it (if it happened as you explained) for it to still be a secret.
"now think about how many people would be 'in' on this secret, its not possible for it (if it happened as you explained) for it to still be a secret. "
its not a secret.te number of insiders in every field who know but say nothing is large.
Experts in every field relating to their expertise have gone on record with their beliefs.These do not get featured in corporate media.If there was no perpetual conspiracy of cover-up by nationalist cult media to sabotage truth for infotainment and corporate/Gov "pigs at the trough" then this expert testimony would be being aired
herzog.
I'm not going to take orders from you, you fool.
I already told you that if the defences had worked properly and to plan those planes would have been intercepted in about 20 minutes. The planes flew around for about an hour and were not intercepted. You seem to want to dismiss this terrible failure of your own country's defences. You are quite clearly attacking people who want others to find out more about the discrepancies with the 9/11 cover story.
You are a crap cover-up merchant and i'm not buying it.
I'm still not sure exactly what facts the non believers are relying on. That the planes weren't intercepted? That Bush wanted a war? Where are the "discrepencies"? Please clarify.
herzog and the_peloquin should get married to each other.
I think they'll make a wonderful couple and spend the rest of their lives together talking crap to one another.
Pony_tail: I don't doubt that the White House was told that a terorist attack was planned a week before 911, but you also have to keep in mind that the White House is barraged daily with "planned terrorist attacks". There was one expected at the Dem. Nat'l Convention, there has been one "expected" around every major holiday we have, there is one expected right now on New York and/or New Jersey. We've had water supply threats, port security threats, bomb threats at airports etc. I don't doubt that the warnings were there, they almost always are. I also don't doubt that the White House wishes more than anything that they had taken that one more seriously, but the fact alone that they didn't doesn't implicate them.
I also don't doubt that the White House wishes more than anything that they had taken that one more seriously, but the fact alone that they didn't doesn't implicate them.
by Cheesecake on Aug 05, 2004
They don't wish they had taken the warnings more seriously because they would have found it difficult or impossible to invade Afghanistan and Iraq (and all the others that are coming soon). All these wars were planned years ago. Just read PNAC. Anybody who isn't suspicious about 9/11 is a fool.
Wake up will you? We're all running out of time. Once the New World Order finally gets a World Government it will be nearly impossible to get it back.
The plan has been the same since the beginning. Cause a load of wars. Make a load of money from them. Offer the solution of a World Government. Anybody with a brain can find out about this and it is time to stop living in denial. The United Nations will use American aggression as a way of forcing the world into a global totalitarian state. It is already being played out in the media.
Bravo cretin_slap, very well said
FOREWARNING
The FBI agents posted above
The entire United States intelligence community knew of the 9/11 attacks before hand, including the fact that commercial jets were to be used as bombs; they also knew the approximate dates and possible targets but were called off their investigations. Western intelligence had been aware of plans for such terrorist attacks on U.S. soil as early as 1995. The plan was known as 'Project Bojinka.' It was known to both the CIA and FBI and was described in court documents in the trial in New York of Ramzi Yousef and Abdul Murad for their participation in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center (WTC).
Seven to eight weeks prior to September 11th, all internal U.S. security agencies were warned of the impending Al-Qaeda attacks. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) was warned of the attack but did nothing to beef up security. At least two weeks prior to September 11th the FBI agents again confirmed that an attack on lower Manhattan was imminent. However, the FBI agents were commanded to cut short their investigations into the attacks and those involved. Agents were threatened with prosecution under the National Security Act if they publicized information pertaining to their investigations. Some field agents predicted, almost precisely, what happened on September 11th.
As early as 1997, Russia, France, Israel, the Philippines and Egypt all warned the U.S. of the possibility of the attack. Warning also came from came from several others sources as well. Recently (May 25, 2002) CBS revealed that President Bush had been warned in an intelligence briefing on August 6, 2001that bin Laden might be planning to hijack commercial planes for a domestic attack in the U.S.
There is incontrovertible evidence that the US Air Force all across the country was comprehensively ''stood down' on the morning of September 11th. Routine security measures, normally in place, which may well have been able to prevent the attacks, or reduce their impact, were suspended for one hour while the attacks were in progress, and re-instated once they were over. Sequence of events:
Neither the Joint Chief of Staff, the Secretary of Defense nor the President of the United States acted according to well established emergency protocols. Acting Joint Chief of Staff General Richard B. Myers stated that he saw a TV report about a plane hitting the WTC but thought it was a small plane. So he went ahead with his meeting. By the time he came out of the meeting the Pentagon had been hit. Whose responsibility was it to relay this emergency to the Joint Chief of Staff?
The Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was at his desk when AA77 crashed into the Pentagon. How is it possible that the National Military Command Center, located in the Pentagon and in contact with law enforcement and air traffic controllers from 8:46 a.m., did not communicate to the Secretary of Defense, also at the Pentagon, about the other hijacked planes especially the one headed to Washington? After he was notified, why did he go to the war room?
Prior to 9/11, the US intelligence agencies should have stopped the nineteen terrorists from entering this country for intelligence reasons, alone. Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers' visas should have been unquestionably denied because their applications were incomplete and incorrect
There are several cases damaging to the credibility of the official accounts of 9/11. But the U.S. response to Mohamed Atta, the alleged lead hijacker, is most extraordinary. The FBI had been monitoring Attas movements for several months in 2000. According to PBS Frontlines, the Immigration and Naturalization Service failed to stop Atta from entering the U.S. three times on a tourist visa in 2001, even though officials knew the visa had expired in 2000, and that Atta had violated its terms by taking flight lessons. Furthermore, Atta had already been implicated in a terrorist bombing in Israel, with the information passed on to the United States before he was first issued his tourist visa.
How did many of the hijackers receive clearance for training at secure U.S. military and intelligence facilities, and for what purposes? Many of the terrorist pilots received their initial training in Venice, Florida at one of two flight schools of highly questionable credibility and with approval of US intelligence. Mohamed Atta had attended International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, Alabama; Abdulaziz Alomari had attended Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force base in Texas; Saeed Alghamdi had been to the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California. These are all names of identified hijackers, so why has the U.S. government attempted to deny the match? As early as three days after the 9/11 attacks, FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III claimed that these findings were new and had not been known by the FBI previously. This claim is a lie.
Zacarias Moussaouri was arrested after his flight trainers at the Minnesota flight school, Pan Am International Flight Academy, reported highly suspicious behavior. He was greatly unqualified; he wanted to learn to fly a 747 but wasnt interested in takeoffs or landings; he was traveling on a French passport, said he was from France, but could not speak French. When
contacted, the French said he was a suspected terrorist connected to Al-Qaeda. However, a special counter terrorism panel of the FBI and CIA reviewed the case and dismissed it.
There are numerous glaring anomalies, illegalities and scandals connected with Wally Hilliard and Rudi Dekkers Huffman Aviation School at Venice, Florida where other hijackers trained. Dekkers had no aviation experience and was under indictment in his native country, The Netherlands, on financial charges. He purchased his aviation school at just about the time the terrorist pilots moved into town and began their lessons. He has yet to be investigated even though he initially trained most of the hijackers.
Britannia Aviation was awarded a five-year contract to run a large regional maintenance facility at Lynchburg at a time when the company virtually had no assets, employees, or corporate history and did not posses the necessary FAA license needed to perform the maintenance. Britannia was a company with known CIA connections. It was operating illegally out of Huffman Aviation, the flight school which trained Al-Qaeda hijackers and was given a "green light" from the Justice Departments Drugs Enforcement Administration, and the local Venice Police Department was warned to "leave them alone." Why?
At a time when the U.S. intelligence community was on alert for an imminent Al-Qaeda attack, the Bush Administration made it easier for Saudi visitors to come to the U.S. under a program called U.S. Visa Express, introduced four months before September 11th. Michael Springmann, former head of the Visa Bureau at the U.S. Consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia said that he was repeatedly ordered by high-level State Departtment officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. His complaints to higher authorities at several agencies went unanswered. In a CBC interview, he indicated that the CIA was indeed complicit in the attacks.
Most of the hijackers were Saudis, as is Osama bin Laden, and the Saudi Arabian government is known to give financial support to terrorist organizations. Why is Iraq and not Saudi Arabia a target if the US government is concerned about terrorism?A New Statesman report stated that "Bin Laden and his gang are just the tentacles; the head lies safely in Saudi Arabia, protected by U.S. forces."
Why were the FBI called off its investigation of Osama bin Laden and the Saudi Royal Family prior to 9/11? Moreover, why were the FBI Agents ordered to curtail their investigation of these attacks on October 10, 2001?
Osama Bin Laden was unofficially convicted of the attacks within a time frame that could not possibly have allowed any intelligence to have been gathered which supported the accusation. That is, it would be impossible if they did not already have that information
From day one, there has not been a shred of publicly available evidence against Bin Laden. Up until mid December, there was nothing but the continued repetition of his name.Within less than four hours of the attacks taking place, the media were fed comments, which assumed Bin Laden's guilt, comments made on the basis of events, which could not possibly have occurred. The Pentagon and the Department of Defense used dialogue attributed to Bin Laden, in an effort to incriminate him, while refusing to release all of the dialogue, and refusing to issue a verbatim, literal translation. Why was it considered necessary to lie, in order to create a case against Bin Laden? The truth could well implicate the Bush administration.
It was reported that ISIs Director-General, General Mahmoud Ahmad, had funneled $100,000 to the lead hijacker, Mohamed Atta, shortly before September 11th. The U.S. government protected him, and itself, by asking him to resign quietly after the discovery, thus blocking a further inquiry and a potential scandal. In the wake of 9/11, the Bush Administration consciously sought the 'cooperation' of the ISI, which had been supporting and abetting Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. In other words, the Bush Administration's relations with Pakistan's ISI, including its 'consultations' with General Mahmoud Ahmad in the week prior to September 11th, raise the issue of 'cover-up' as well as 'complicity". While Ahmad was talking to U.S. officials at the CIA and the Pentagon, the ISI allegedly had contacts with the 9/11 terrorists.
Selected persons were told not to fly that day. Newsweek reported that on September 10th, 'a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns.' Why was that same information not made available to the 266 people who died aboard the four hijacked commercial aircraft? A significant number of selected people were warned about flying or reporting for work at the WTC. San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown received a phone call eight hours before the hijacking warning him not to travel by air. Salman Rushdie is under a 24-hour protection of UK Scotland yard; he was also prevented from flying that day. Ariel Sharon canceled his address to Israeli support groups in New York City just the day before his scheduled September 11th address. John Ashcroft stopped flying on public airplanes in July of 2001.
Other evidence exists indicating that government officials knew of the attacks beforehand. For example, Tom Kenny who was with a rescue squad from FEMA told Dan Rather of CBS News that, 'We arrived on Monday night (September 10th) and went into action of Tuesday.' How is it possible for high government officials to have been caught by surprise as some claimed?
The Bush Administration is clearly capable of creating or allowing such atrocities to occur. Hitler was able to play the anti-communist card to win over skeptical German industrialists. Certainly the Bush family are not newcomers to melding political and business interests, they got their start as key Hitler supporters. Prescott Bush, father of George Bush Sr., was HitlerÕs banker and propaganda manager in New York, until FDR confiscated his holdings. George Bush Sr. used Manuel Noriega as a scapegoat, killing thousands of innocent Panamanians in the process of re-establishing U.S. control over Panama. It is also widely believed that the current Bush Administration knowingly misled the people about the war in Iraq.
The evidence seems clear that if the many agencies of the U.S. government had done their jobs, the September 11th attack would likely have been prevented. If there had been an immediate investigation into the September 11th attacks, the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq could not have been justified simply on the basis of terrorism. Surely questions must be asked about why there is yet no accountability of the Bush administration and why the journalists and others in mass media are not held responsible for the coverup, deception and lack of investigative reporting
The story of US military involvement in Afghanistan was reported months before 9-11 in respected Indian and British (publications but it was never reported in the US media. With the military plans already in motion since at least June of 2001, all that was needed was for an 'incident' to take place to justify the US going to "war against Terrorism" in Afghanistan.
The Franfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, (FAZ) one of Germanys most
respected newspapers, quoted German intelligence sources who said that the Echelon electronic spy network gave US and Israeli intelligence agencies several warnings that suicidal hijack attacks were being planned against US targets.Echelon is capable of monitoring all electronic communication in the world. Utilizing 120 satellites, Echelon is designed to suck up enormous amounts of data by using keyword search techniques to sift through the data
In its September 24, 2001 issue, Newsweek broke this startling revelation:
'Three weeks ago there was another warning that a terrorist strike might be imminent
On September 10, Newsweek has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly cancelled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns.'.
On September 27, The Washington Post reported that two workers of the Israeli company Odigo (with offices also in New York) received instant message warnings just two hours before the attacks. Heres an excerpt from the Post:
'Officials at instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed today that two employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World Trade Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New York landmarks'
Soon after the attacks, the Odigo employees informed the management of the electronic message they had received. Israeli security services were contacted and the FBI was informed. Nothing has been heard about this event since. I think it's safe to say that "Islamic terrorists" would not have been considerate enough to send detailed E-mail warnings to some obscure Israeli office workers.
The London Daily Telegraph reported on September 16, 2001:
'The Telegraph has learned that two senior experts with Mossad, the Israeli military intelligence service, were sent to Washington in August to alert the FBI and CIA to the existence of a cell of as many as 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation. They had no specific information about what was being planned but linked the plot to Osama Bin Laden and told American officials that there were strong grounds for suspecting Iraqi involvement.'
PHONY TERRORIST ALERTS
"The problem Brzezinski says is that most average Americans dont have a taste for crusades of global conquest...
Unless...
...theres a sudden terrifying threat.
In his latest book, The Grand Chessboard, Brzezinski drills his followers no less than four times that only sudden and terrifying threats would rouse Americans to the task of global conquest.
With the opening salvo of September 11th behind them, Americans are being, softened up right now for their first Dirty Bomb, attack. If there was ever so sinister an imaginary catastrophic device that had been so entirely concocted out of thin air, so heavily promoted in the media and ultimately steered to what will almost certainly be the dramatic conclusion of a self fulfilling media stoked prophecy - to be fabricated first in our imaginations then ignited in the real world - It is the dirty bomb. Find out the Generators of the dirty bomb meme that took off like wildfire eight months ago and you will find the very source of American terrorism.Americans have been made, aware, of the dirty bomb for over six months now and have had the dirty bomb meme firmly linked to, Islamic Terrorists. This is how its done. Its called the, Back Story. And it is part of the preparatory propaganda intelligence agencies call a Psy-op (psychological operation). These Psy-ops in actuality comprise nearly 70% of the overall human and capital resources our government devotes to a given geo-strategic objective - only 30% is bullets and bombs. But even with the many millions spent on painting these elaborate Psy-op pictures, it doesnt take a forensic analysis to uncover some troubling clues within them - Something terribly wrong in the picture. Like a Hollywood special effects extravaganza - all glitz but light on story, these psy-ops which always accompany the dirty business of Americas, industry, military, intelligence triad, are the shoddy screenplays that, to the trained eye, are unconvincing, unbelievable, and scream out - "Inside Job." In this case the clues point to only one conclusion. In their race towards global domination these intelligence groups are preparing to initiate attacks on American population centers. And are laying the preparatory groundwork to make those attacks have maximum political and psychological effect.
The analysis is clear - The sheer volume of the psychological info-warfare now being released into the media and principally targeted at the American people contains within it key indicators that point to an eminent inside attack. A careful examination of the history, personalities, and psychological profiles of those involved tell the whole story, it's the dark hand at work here"
The Bushes Have NEVER waged war with any population except the very poorest of the Earths poor - The impoverished, shirtless and barefooted populations of Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Guatamala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and on and on. And now we are at war with Afganistan - The country with the lowest per capita expenditure on military in the world, right behind Cambodia. That's courage!
(The only historical exception to this rule of decimating only impoverished populations is when Prescott Bush, George Srs father eagerly financed the Hitler war machine as it rampaged throughout Europe.)
Bushes Jr.s. grandfather and great grandfather were both merchants of death. The great Grandfather was involved with the Remington Arms Manufacturing Company when, during World War One - they sold 3/4 of all light armaments used in that war - to both sides
News release (CIA) read that, Mohammed Atta supposedly had a meeting with a loan officer from the US Agriculture Dept. in order to buy an airplane, strip it of it's seats and transform the plane into a massive flying tank. During this so-called meeting he is alleged to have blurted out reference after reference to terrorism, the "Great" Bin Laden and allegedly grew fascinated by a satellite photo of Washington DC hanging in the womans office upon which he supposedly grilled the bureaucrat about the various landmarks of Washington and pressured her to sell the photo to him.They want us to believe their story, that this man who supposedly masterminded the most notorious and dramatic military strike in the history of notorious and dramatic military strikes (except possibly Hiroshima), all the while planning and infiltrating the deepest cover to pull off this attack. And were supposed to believe that he just walked into a US government office and blurted out the whole plan to some US Government loan officer?
'herzog you dumb ass, the facts are there right before your very eyes all around you and yet you are still to blind to see'
Alien: if the 'facts' are right there, why are you having such a difficult time coming up with any? I've given you five, you've given me zero. So far facts are on my side, along with reason and sanity.
Wait, let me guess, the lack of facts proves your story is true! Yes of course, because since there is no proof that must prove there is a conspiracy to cover up what really happened. Is that it alien?
How do you people function in the real world?
Guest: I highly doubt you were ever like me, even the broadest sense of the word.
And why is it that whenever I ask for facts from conspiracy nuts they send me a link to some conspiracy website? Here's a novel concept: get your facts from real newssites. Or just list out point by point why you believe the nonsense you do so I can easily go through your list and prove it wrong, point by point.
And in my experiace oneone who claims to know the 'truth', or even worse the 'TRUTH', should be ignored. Religious nuts screaming nonsense on a streetcorner claim to know the truth, mormons who come knock on my door in the morning claim to know the truth, every tyrannt and dictator throughout history has told nothing but the truth. So far 'truth' seems to be whatever an individual really really wants to believe. Thanks but I'll stick with facts.
Cretin-slap: Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm in denial. When it comes to PNAC you must consider the source. The site was created by Lance Brown, a pot smoking 32 year old libertarian, who wants to be president in 2008. Not that being a libertarian is bad, but surely you would keep in mind when reading his website that his information is biased. In fact, most Libertarians seem more closed minded than ever before. "What was once advocated on the basis of reason is now put forth as a matter of faith." You have to be absolutely against anything that comes from "the Washington regime" when in actuality, that way of thinking is completely inconsistent with liberal principle. It just seems to me that Lance Brown is hardly the person I would turn to when trying to make an informed decision. I'm inclined to agree with herzog, in the sense that the only "facts" that have been presented thus far seem to come from unreliable sources.
Guest_1220: You say that whatreallyhappened is "non partisan" and yet it is sponsored by libertybound.com which encourages it's supporters to send their movie stubs from Fahrenheit 911 to George Bush with "I know what you did last summer" written on the back?
Guest: From your various comments it's clear that you are both an idiot and an anti semite. And as such I'm no longer going to respond to your childish rants. Anyone else who wants to further discuss this topic, fine, but not you.
You say that whatreallyhappened is "non partisan" and yet it is sponsored by libertybound.com which encourages it's supporters to send their movie stubs from Fahrenheit 911 to George Bush with "I know what you did last summer" written on the back?
Ha! Good catch cheesecake.
Cheesecake - you might want to check out cooperative research.org and look at their timeline regarding 9/11.
by zig on Thu Aug 05, 04 5:06pm
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"#2 more video tape evidence from the airport of arab men boarding those flights. Fact #3 voice recordings from one of the flights describing exactly what happened. Fact #4 bin laden took credit for the attackFact #5 evidence that the hijackers had attended flight school in the US years prior to 911. "
If BushCo ever gets evidence for any of this it will eagerly awaited for proper scrutiny
"You say that whatreallyhappened is "non partisan" and yet it is sponsored by libertybound.com which encourages it's supporters to send their movie stubs from Fahrenheit 911 to George Bush with "I know what you did last summer" written on the back?"
So?
" in the sense that the only "facts" that have been presented thus far seem to come from unreliable sources. "
Correct, if you are referring to "official " gov/media ones
ZIG: While an interesting take on history and certainly food for thought, when someone approaches a research project with a preconceived hypothesis, then the research is ultimately flawed due to the destination based way the information is gathered. While the sources may be based on fact, the conclusions are based on speculation.
when someone approaches a research project with a preconceived hypothesis, then the research is ultimately flawed due to the destination based way the information is gathered. - Cheesecake
I couldn't agree more. However, this site is known for its accurate information-gathering and unbiased research. Some of the subject matter may seem distasteful, but there is a focus on the facts, especially with regard to financial records ... which I haven't yet been able to refute. Incidentally, I have a research background. I was a journalist for several years.
Read with an open mind and a healthy degree of skepticism before following up with your own fact finding mission.
by zig on Thu Aug 05, 04 6:34pm
[+]
Hey herzog,what do you think makes these conspiracy freaks so damn sure of themselves?Is it plain insanity,mind altering drugs or the fact that they were left out of the evolutionary process?
I think it stems from a deep rooted sense of inadequacy. These people don't tend to be what you'd call 'winners', unemployed or have a shitty job, living at home, not many friends, got beaten up too much in highschool, etc. And as a result of this they feel a need to create these conspiracies to make them feel 'in the know' and better than everyone else. Just look at the way they talk and it's obvious they are trying to come off as smarter than everyone else. It's sad, but I suppose it keeps them from shooting up their schools, so perhaps it's a good thing.
Dr. herzogs professional diagnosis.
You guys are killing me. In all the time you've spent going to websites and participating in this thread, you could have gone to a bookstore and picked up a copy of the 9/11 commission report. (Unless of course you think that the 9/11 report is fake, or that the commission is involved in the conspiracy, in which case there's no need to continue this conversation) The commission consisted of 5 Democrats and 5 Republicans (and a ton of staff) who chose to come together with a unity of purpose. They examined 2.5 million pages of documents, interviewed more than 1,200 individuals in ten countries (which included nearly every senior official from the current and previous administrations who had responsibility for topics covered in the commission's mandate), as well as holding 19 days of hearings and collecting public testimony from 160 witnesses. (This information is taken from the report itself)
I'm only up to page 55, but it has been extremely informative so far. The book is well written, and very comprehensive - it is not just a report on the events of 9/11 itself, but goes into ALL pertinent (including peripheral) information leading up to the attacks, the attacks themselves, reflects on past policies and structures, and identifies a global strategy for attacking, preventing, and protecting people from terrorism. It suggests new ways to organize government - the foreign-domestic divide, the intelligence community, the sharing of information, the Congress itself, and organizing America's defenses. I'd like to list all of the chapters, but writing down all 55 of them would take up too much space.
This report was not written by the media. It was not written by someone who has a website. It was not written experts in the relevant fields. It was written by 10 elected representatives from the United States government, and is the most clear and direct connection to the facts that I am aware of.
The wonderful thing about conspiracy theories is that they can never be disproven. If someone uncovers a fact that contradicts the conspiracy theory, it is disregarded as fiction, or as part of the conspiracy itself.
I STRONGLY urge all of you to pick up a copy of the book. It's fairly easy to read, is non-partisan, (*really), and contains a HUGE amount of information, some of which cannot be disputed under *any circumstances. (Such as the difference between Sunni and Shia Muslims, and the history of Islam)
I trust these people and this document. Until someone comes up with ironclad proof that this report is fiction, or a purposeful misrepresentation of the facts, I will consider it to be perhaps the greatest historical document of our time. Please do yourself a favor and read it.
Good posts bigmonkeynuts.
Again a good question to ask is would you rather give more credence to the points that bigmonkeynuts provided or the childish personal attacks of herzog?
Guest_2b5ed:
I disagree. So we'll just have to leave it at that. I'm keeping to my promise not to have a conversation with someone who thinks the report is part of a vast conspiracy. It's not logical. >:)
bigmonkeynuts, I am curious. It is your position that no information coming out of the government can ever be trusted? Because I can certainly understand that attitude.
Applerod , G'day
im not using labels as conspiracy.I dont believe that anything is a conspiracy.I just stick to whats been posted and let it speak for itself.
A comment on so-called "entities" which are described as if living, breathing organic.I dont recognize "government".i believe in unconditional genocide ( Earthquakes, pole shifts, violent revolution) though and involuntary psychiatric intervention.i.e enforced solitude.There are radio shows here on local community channels who are able to devote an entire 2 hour radio program to any single department of "government" you can name detailing its corruption, negligence, every outrage in the book to keep it on air forever.Eg,DOCS, Family and community services etc
My conclusion along with many psychotherapists , psychiatrists etc is that its mental illness Otherwise known as Stockholm Syndrome.
Reasearchers have been careful to put straightforward facts.People on this thread (who I will not name) dont have the capacity to read them, address them and make it look like they werent even posted while stating the same thing over and over with schoolboy name calling.They have no insight and its mental illness.I dont take them seriously
Are we talking about the credibility of the so called "government '.That was extensively addressed above under the FOREWARNING post, the FBI field agents.I believe them over the so-called "government "The alleged proof given of the highjacking/ highjackers (who will remain nameless)was dealt with.It was not read , addressed but was again repeated with further name calling.Thats mental illness.The establishment throughout history, religious (jew, Muslim, Christian) Political , (school teachers, cops , politicians, military) Scientific (biopsychiatric, Darwinism) etc are generally mentally ill.Thats not a slur.Its an easily demonstrated reality.When a statement is made about 9/11 its called a CONCLUSION or REASONED SPECULATION (right or wrong) after extensive analysis or of self evident information.The mentally Ill have a need to believe that its an ALLEGATION or PULLED OUT OF THE ASS with absolutely no prior data and or supportive evidence.
A would be debunker of debunkers purports to have refuted a particular (conspiracy) theory when in fact they misquoted , misrepresented and misunderstood and due to this can claim the (conspiracy) claimant as a truly pathetic researcher.Its the other way around but there isnt much that can be done about the mentally Ill. (Chip Berlet as an eg)
It is a waste of time to try to convice the typical Fox news viewer that that 911 was an inside job. The only conspiracy here is the government explanation of 911. The mainstream media won't touch it. The question by some pundits is - Who would benifit other than Osama? Well, let me see, how about lockeed martin, ratheon, boeing, general electric, fmc, shell, halburton, general dynamics etc. When the cold war ended we needed an enemy to perpetuate the military industrial complex. The greatest fear of neocons is that peace should break out. Standard operating procedure has always been to intercept even of course private planes, let alone missing jumbo jets. As an air force vet I can assure you that a someone very high up in the chain of command told norad to stand down- period. A buddy of mine a F15 Eagle pilot told me he was itching to get in the air - even if it meant shooting down a civilian airliner- but the base commander said he was ordered to stand down. What about the air traffic control records that on 911 that were mysteriously destroyed? What about Larry Silverstien admiting on PBS that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition? What about the fact that according the the FBI the so called hijackers couldn't fly a cesna 152 yet somehow flew evasive and complicated flight routes in a jumbo jet? What about the media telling us that a paper passport of one of the hijackers was found at ground zero but the black boxes on the jets were vaporized. Hell, our government said we were totally caught off guard yet within 1 hour of the attacks there were pictures of all the hijackers on CNN. Give me a freaken break. A structural engineer told me that the nature of the tower collapses was without a doubt due to controlled demolition and my Dad a NYC firefighter insists that his men saw bombs in the towers. Wake up people.
Dont know if it was mentioned in the foreknowledge post or the others about "Despite those warnings and others, Bush administration officials insisted after Sept. 11 that they didnt know about the possibility of commercial planes being flown into buildings. I dont think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile, National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice said on May 16, 2002. 56 '
This article here makes the distiction between "Jew conspiracy "as opposed to Zionism/ gov activities.A good article and overview of 9/11
www.voxfux.com/ features/stranger _than_ fiction.htm
Rightly or wrongly.
a discursive look at past activities would show that it is not absurd in any case
In 1951, when Irans Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh nationalized the oil industry in that Mideast nation, he was deposed by a coup instigated by the CIA and the Shah came to power, assuming complete control in 1963. Thousands of Iranians, perhaps millions died during the repressive rule of the Shah and his SAVAK secret police. The Shah was finally forced out in 1979 by the Ayatollah Khomeini, who became the USs latest foreign enemy despite the fact that he had been on the CIA payroll while living in Paris. The Shah was granted asylum in the United States.
In Guatemala in 1954, again the CIA toppled the popularly elected government of Jacobo Arbenz, which had nationalized United Fruit property. Prominent American government officials such as former CIA Director Walter Bedell Smith, then CIA Director Allen Dulles, Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs John Moors Cabot and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles were all closely connected to United Fruit. An estimated 120,000 Guatemalan peasants died in the resulting military dictatorships.
Fidel Castro, with covert aid from the CIA, overthrew the military dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista and instituted sweeping land, industrial and educational reforms as well as nationalizing American businesses. Swifty labeled a communist, the CIA then organized anti-Castro Cubans resulting in numerous attacks on Cuba and the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in 1961. The island nation has been the object of US economic sanctions since that time.
In 1979, the powerful Somoza family, which had ruled Nicaragua since 1937, was finally overthrown and Daniel Ortega was elected president. CIA-backed Contra insurgents operating from Honduras fought a protracted war to oust the Ortega government in which an estimated 30,000 people died. The ensuing struggle came to include such shady dealing in arms and drugs that it created a scandal in the United States called Iran-Contra, which involved selling arms to Iran and using the profits to support the Contras.
There are a million egs of this stuff.The US taking out airliners, bombing places like Sudan etc .9/11 is pretty routine , its just that its in the US for a change
I see. First of all, I just took the time to read your FOREWARNING post. Of the many points that you raise, I tend to agree with some of them, and others I'm just not so sure about. I'd love to do a point-by-point analysis, but at this moment, I do not have the time, motivation, or, (most importantly) - the information necessary to respond to them.
You say that you don't believe in "government", you do believe in unconditional genocide, as well as "enforced solitude". I don't understand what those things mean. Would care to elaborate?
You mentioned the Stockholm Syndrome. That is when captives identify with and bond with their captors as a mechanism for enduring the trauma of being held prisoner. How does that apply to this situtation? Who are the "captives", and who are the "captors"?
Furthermore, I do not believe ignorance is a mental illness, as you suggest.
Most importantly though, what is your conclusion, or reasoned speculation based on what you know about 9/11 and everything attached to it? Who are the perpetrators? What was the purpose and nature of the attack? And if you had to speculate on ways that the system might possibly be improved, what would you say?
Can anyone remember back in the late 1800's when a US ship sunk and automatically Spain was to blame. Well, in 1972 an American admiral said that it wasnt Spain who sunk the ship it was an overheated engine that exploded or something like that. Would it be the first time? I didnt think so. You cant say those were different times because the Us constitution hasnt change nor have its international war policies.
Or can anyone remember good ol' Manu Noriega? Well he was installed by the US as dictator of Panama and when he choose to break away they exiled him. Plus he was a cocaine tycoon. So herzog, why doesnt your conservative ass prove any of the things I stated above false.
i think it was used advantageously to support an attack on iraq - but to say it was a hoax is to seriously underestimate the very real threat of islamic fundamentalism and as much as i despise bush and his cronies - even he wouldn't stoop that low - would he?
read "Terror Hunter" - some interesting stuff - too bad the people supposed to "protect" us weren't interested in paying more attention. Were they just that naive? too caught up in their own intrigues? couldn't imagine something so horrific could happen in America? or saw more to gain in letting events play out as opposed to trying to prevent them. Some people knew what was going on - why didn't the people we pay to react to this kind og information do anything? Then again Bush and his buddies were making lots more money off the Saudis than the American people are paying him to be president. and there is that all important drug war to fight. Airport security was too busy responding to drug sniffing dogs barking at smelly underwear due to my daughters unfortunate bout with diarrhea to be concerned about foreigners with box cutters but no luggage repeatedly boarding the same flights....
it's a possibility
by no1 on Fri Aug 06, 04 9:44pm
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guest f6391 - so what are you saying - Arabs didn't hijack the planes that flew into the World Trade Center or that they shouldn't be held responsible?
I doubt it,more likely that they knew of the dangers but didn't take preventative action for expedient reasons.
Will we ever know?
How many times have you heard a slick political mouthpiece say the words, *9/11 changed everything.*?
They say it all the time. 9/11 is America's sole justification for delivering us into the New World Order.
Hoax isn't really the word. Try describing it as what it was. A psy-op.
{{The families of September 11 victims certainly don't appreciate Bush's duplicity and callous opportunism, either. " We've been fighting for nearly 21 months -- fighting the administration, the White House, " Monica Gabrielle, whose husband Richard was killed in the World Trade Center, told Salon. " As soon as we started looking for answers we were blocked, put off and ignored at every stop of the way. "
" The Administration, and most politicians, really don't want to get to the bottom of it, (9/11) because they're all implicated in some way, in too many different areas, for too many years, " former New York City cop told Bruce DeCell the Nation. But Newsweek explained the Bush strategy most succinctly: " Even as White House political aides plot a 2004 campaign plan designed to capitalize on the emotions and issues raised by the September 11 terror attacks, " Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball wrote, " administration officials are waging a behind-the-scenes battle to restrict public disclosure of key events relating to the attacks. " }}
1# The architects who designed the World Trade Center designed it to withstand the direct impact and fuel fire of a commercial airline crash. Aaron Swirsky, one of the architects of the WTC described the collapse as "incredible" and "unbelievable." 51 Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer said: "I designed it for a 707 to hit it. The Boeing 707 has a fuel capacity comparable to the 767."
2# The history of high-rise building fires provides no case histories of buildings collapsing due to steel beams melting from a fire.
3# The collapse of both towers were both perfectly symmetrical and methodical. The straight down collapse was identical in appearance to a well engineered, controlled implosion. A demolition company could not have done it better.
4# Even a layman with no explosives background should be able to see all this. But many specialists in the explosives and structural engineering have also made this observation and commented on these inconsistencies. After the WTC collapse, the Vice President of New Mexico Tech, Van Romero, gave an interview to the Albuquerque Journal. He stated plainly that he believed that the WTC collapse was too methodical and that explosive devices must have been placed in key points of both buildings. Romero said, "It would be difficult for something from the plane to trigger an event like that. It could have been a relatively small amount of explosives placed in strategic points. One of the things that terrorists are noted for is a diversionary attack and a secondary device."
5# Several witnesses and survivors reported hearing bombs going off inside the World Trade Center. Louie Cacchioli is a firefighter with Engine 47 in Harlem, New York. Cacchioli told People Magazine the following: "I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building."
Now this whole controversy between the "melted steel" scenario and the detonation scenario is one that could be very easily resolved. All we have to do is dig up the steel beams and examine each and everyone of them. If an explosive device caused the steel to fail, there will be tell-tale indications for the engineers to see. But if it was intense heat that caused the steel to "melt" or "buckle", there will be tell-tale signs of that as well. All we have to do to put an end to this controversy is to closely examine the steel. Right? Thanks to New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, the steel beams were quickly recycled before investigators even had the chance to look at them! Much of the steel was recycled in America, but an additional seventy thousand tons of WTC steel was sold to Metals Management - which immediately shipped the WTCÂs steel to China and India for recycling before any investigators could have a chance to examine it!
AMAZING! The largest criminal investigation in history and the investigators weren't even permitted to see the most important evidence of all - the steel!
When it first happened, the thought crosses my mind. This would be the perfect thing to get people to give up their freedoms. The patriot act came soon after.
People are being microchipped everywhere.Just like the plan goes its done gradually until everyone gets used to it , conditioning perception.In Barcelona in clubs , Japanese school slaves,In russia dogtags and chips for "kiddies" ,britain
Several years ago when i talked of this the response was that it was simply inconceivable.It wasnt taken seriously at all.Id go "Thats whats they said about flared pants"
So called "authorities" use the high ground of moral authority to ORDER it after its been contextualised and people simply cave in and accept
Mentally and physically
They are already doing their sell like they did with bike helmets
" get em in all sorts of different COLOURS"
"Yeh, COOL!!"
Barney and Friends say so
The war on Iraq is simply a war for US/Israel domination of the arab region and control of Iraq's 1 trillion dollars worth of oil resources.
With Iraq in our pocket and Saudi Arabia by our side. We're poised to do some damage if we so desire.
No!
This is only a Michael Moore,communist America hating moronic theory!
Any dumb fuck that would believe such a ridiculous theory is mentally ill or a pot-head!
islam_hater
Really islamo hatero? How fascinating.
Tell exactly what it is in the Guest_7f768's post that is false. It sounds like you know. Prove it.
I equate this question to a full moon.LOOKOUT!Here come all the FREAKS!!!
You've been watching too many movies.
Please take note that the people who agree with the official story of 9/11 will never discuss the little factual details that would allow their story to fall apart. They have no choice to call the poster's sanity into question or use ridicule. If that doesn't work they will attempt to change the subject.
"you stupid little retards how dare you, you need to be tried like the sob's that did it "
You mean like the victims families ? : )
---- bmn
you stupid little retards how dare you, you need to be tried like the sob's that did it
by Guest_e68e0 on Oct 12, 2004
See how they can't discuss it? They can't discuss it without having to admit that the government cover story is total lies. Hence, "you stupid little retards."
Only if you are one of the many useful idiots that Lenin so accurately described by way of the American Left.
It is not a conspiracy when it is happening right in front of all of us, we act like zombies living in the dark, idiots believing whatever's easy, whatever makes us feel safer and gets us a few dollars, anything our 'elected' officials say, and they do have this power for a reason, they must be right huh?
by x__ on Sat Oct 30, 04 8:15pm
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Its funny.When i started out on this site i never knew what Leftist Or Right-wing was.Still not sure.Everytime i got called it , even after putting an entirely rational (not to mention irrefutable) point i was like ,"what the f is a leftist and whats it got to do with what i posted"
After further exposure to reading the site i understood a little better.So now, im thinking back to many ballots as well as this one and can see the defeated ones are on the right and are hurling abuse.It seems the ones who post reasoned comments appear to be mostly called Left or neutral.I dont know if this was the case during Clinton or will be during a Kerry prez but ive picked up on the image from down under (OZ) that right-wing is the Redneck, crewcut ,brick-4-a-brain idiot hurling the stupid namecalling and being a twat
Just noticed Afghanistan mentioned in a guest post above
Id like to mention that the drug industry there has skyrocketed since the invasion.Thats one of the reasons of course for all the invasions.Yugoslavia has seen its drug trafficking take off,Vietnam was also about that.The drug trafficking is the basis of the entire western economy
A 24 YEAR AIRFORCE VETERAN
A US Air Force officer in California recently accused President Bush of deliberately allowing the September 11 terror attacks to take place. The officer has been relieved of his command and faces further discipline. The controversy surrounding Lt. Col. Steve Butler's letter to the editor, in which he affirmed that Bush did nothing to warn the American people because he " needed this war on terrorism ," received scant coverage in the media.
Universally ignored by the press, however, was that the officer was not merely expressing a personal opinion. He was in a position to have direct knowledge of contacts between the US military and some of the hijackers in the period before the terrorist attacks that destroyed the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon.
Lieutenant Colonel Butler, who wrote in a letter to the editor of the Monterey County Herald charging that " Bush knew about the impending attacks, " was vice chancellor for student affairs at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California a US military facility that one or more of the hijackers reportedly attended during the 1990s.
Just like FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attcked....NOT!
Good one, Dragonman666. That'll teach those people who bother to research things.
absolutely not, but there is a very high probability that the severely mentally challenged have learned how to log onto this site.
See how all they can do is call you mad? Just for having an opinion that differs from the one that comes to you through your television? I've done my research. I can think independently and i've arived at a conclusion. If you feel suspicious when some user with a stupid name that betrays their right wing outlook casts doubt on the sanity of another user that happens to disagree with the mass media view then have a look on the net and try to find some opposing viewpoints. Once you have both sides of the story you can make an informed decision.
COLONEL Donn De Grand-pre
DGP: Okay, I've got three books out, Alex, under the title, "Barbarians Inside the Gates." Book 1 was "The Serpent's Sting," Book 2 is "The Viper's Venom," Book 3 which just came out is "The Rattler's Revenge." And I'd like to quote from Book 2, which came out October of 2002. There is a very important paragraph there. It says, "The trigger for the 911 activity was the imminent and unstoppable world-wide financial collapse which can only be prevented temporarily by a major war, perhaps to become known as World War III. To bring it off one more time, martial law will probably be imposed in the United States."
AJ: And now we've seen Gen. Eberhart say that that's the next step. Tommy Franks said that's the next step. Are those now chilling statements?
DGP: Yes, they are. This next step will be preceded by what I write up in book 1 ' "The Serpent's Sting." I wrote of a coming coup d'etat. And this was written in the year 2000. And sure as blazes, it's coming. And it will be preceded by these kinds of things as enunciated by Tommy Franks, among others. So we are in a world of hurt, Alex.
AJ: Now, by a coup d'etat, you mean another intensification of a reverse coup d'etat to keep the people from fighting against the New World Order or do you mean the type that Bill Clinton successfully stopped in his administration?
DGP: Well, I'm talking about the administrative coup d'etat that came off September 11th.
AJ: You're talking about an intensification of the elite in a coup d'etat against America.
DGP: That is correct.
AJ: Well, I mean, it's ongoing. They are federalizing everything, they are militarizing everything, they're engaging in the classic takeover, are they not?
DGP: Yes, there are. And from this, Alex, and I bring this out very clearly in book 3, the only way we can stop it is with the classic counter-coup d'etat where the military steps in. And under the aegis of the military itself, disengaging or disemboweling the civilian hierarchy and taking over and re-running or re-organizing the federal government.
AJ: Now the problem is they've got so many CFR minions in the Pentagon. We know that Clinton had some officers terminated and, in their office, shot multiple times and the rest of it. We know that that happened but the question is how many of the high level officers are on the globalist team?
DGP: I can only say several of the highest level are members now of the Council on Foreign Relations. The important thing to consider is how many of them are sincere in their beliefs as enunciated by the CFR. I believe there are several sleepers and I believe I know some of them personally who are three and four-star generals. They are members of the CFR but "their heart belongs to Jesus," if I can use that expression because they are true Semper Fidelity people. Some of them happen to be Marines. And I'm counting on them to do the right thing. And I bring this out in book 3.
AJ: Absolutely and we'll tell people how they can get those books. I mean I want to carry them but Colonel, your experience in the military, your experience in the intelligence agencies, there's also the danger though obviously in any military movement of that nature that it could be self-serving as well, and set up its own form of wickedness.
DGP: Yes, that's plausible, that's correct. I don't believe it will happen in exactly that fashion. And the thing about a coup d'etat and a counter-coup d'etat is you never know when it's going to happen. You never know exactly who is involved. This is a plus for any planners of a counter-coup d'etat.
AJ: Well, this is certainly dividing the wheat from the chaff. How many people, and we'll get the answer to the question when we get back from your feelers in the Pentagon, how many people in there now know that an element of the global system, a crime syndicate, carried out 91, I mean, only an idiot would know, would think they didn't but the point is, this has got to be accelerating the division. And I want to get your take on the pulse of that and we'll take calls when we get back. Stay with us.
BREAK
AJ: We are talking to Col. Donn de Grand-Pre and he worked in many of the levels of the U.S. military and has put out some really important information. Two years ago, he put out a report in a meeting in a 72-hour deliberation, a group of military and civilian U.S. pilots under the chairmanship of Col. Donn de Grand-Pre. After deliberating non-stop for 72-hours has concluded that the flight crews of the four passenger airliners involved in the September 11th tragedy had no control over the aircraft. And they get into how the military industrial complex clearly, that is elements of it, were in control of this. Colonel, we are going to go to some calls here in a minutes after you cover some other issues with us. But, understand this, my question of what percentage of the officers, period, in the military do you think have finally woken up to the true magnitude of what's going on?
DGP: Well, I'm in personal contact at least on a weekly basis with the Joint Chiefs and other select people. My computation is that 70% of us are with us. That's the higher ranking military, field grade officers, etc. and even the first three grades of the enlisted ' 70% are with us.
AJ: Well, they've had questionnaires, you know, a decade ago, will you fire on U.S. citizens under UN control if the president says so ' and, you know, 74% say no to that. Okay, then how are the globalists getting away with this?
DGP: Sheer bluff and we can thank many of the neocons who are now in power in the Defense Dept. particularly. They get away with it because they try it out and see if anybody will salute the flag and that's the way it goes.
De-classified
documents show that the Pentagon had PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the attack on Pearl Harbour, indeed, that they provoked and instigated the unprovoked attack and did nothing to stop it. A July 22 report by Admiral Richmond Turner in 1941 read:
It is generally believed that shutting off the American supply of petroleum will lead promptly to the invasion of Netherland East Indies
it seems certain that she ( Japan ) would also include military action in the Philippine islands which would immediately involve us in a Pacific war. '
Also, a Top Secret Army Board report of October 1944 clearly states that in the period leading up to Pearl Harbour, the US military received information regarding the intentions of the Japanese including the probable exact hour and date of the attack .
Actually Dooshbag__ Neckbreak, the right wing neanderthals cant produce anything."your a spastic " doesnt hold up in a court or even a high school debate.
Cheney,Bush , Rumsfeld and co are done and so are all these freaks.
I know Cheney's finished. But fingers crossed for the other two. I think Bush has got a big finale up his sleeve.
I wouldnt be the least bit suprised it made his approvial rating go up and it allowed Bush to pass the patriot act that futher took away your freedom so yeah i wouldnt be the least bit suprised if that turned out to be true.
by seon on Sat Dec 04, 04 10:50pm
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bs!
Anonymous you have a point Bush is to stupid to pull of such a stunt anyway.
by seon on Tue Dec 07, 04 9:45pm
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Whoever thinks that the World Trade center destruction was a conspiracy by the U.S. gov. is a fucking dumbass who should put a gun to their face.
I'm sure you ain't scary at all, Anonymous.
i don't beleive in most of the conspiricy theories but the bush administration certainly didn't do enough, but the way they used it as a reason to go to war with iraq is pathetic. There was never any link between sadaam and al quaeda. Link between bush and bin ladens familly, well thats a another matter
Anonymous your the one who watches to much tv. Let me guess you watch fox "news"
by seon on Wed Feb 16, 05 12:10am
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You people are all a bunch of fucking morons. Why the hell would we destroy the most important buildings in New York, and badly damage the Pentagon which is the largest military building in the world. Actually its the largest building in the world period. Why would we bomb the buildings to go to war with Afganistan and Iraq? Tell because if it was a conspiracy why not blame a more important region like China or fucking Germany or something? I bet you will all jump to the conclusion of oil. Wrong the U.S. can produce just as much oil as Iraq. Some people say the buildings were brought down by explosions. Wrong retarts. When a tall building is demolished it fall from the bottom. The towers started falling from the top first, begining at the impact. The buildings did not come straight down. the whole fucking tops fell sideways and into the floors below. Watch the tapes again dipshits. Also the tower hit second fell first because the plane hit lower. This was because there was more weight up top. If you people knew anything you would know that the temperature of burning jet feul constanly rises. You don't have to melt all the steel you just have to crack the bolts. The World trade center when built was designed to withstand a plane crash from the largest plane of its day. The planes that hit it were much larger. When one floor falls it creates a chain reaction that forces all of the floors to fall under neath it causing the buildings to fall. Why the hell would we want to cause so much damage just to go to war with some shitty countries in the Middle East?
only if it was a Saudi hoax. to get us to fight others in their area for them.
yea even the al queda has said before that they would drain the U.S out like they did to Russia because that is the only way they will have a chance at winning. But it isnt going to work were just using that as an excuse to push our technologies even farther ahead then the rest of the world. Thats why military spending is so high right now.
Voted : Yes
Only the remotest, but it is possible. Bush and his cohorts are raking in billions because of this prolonged war. Money does not quell the appetite of the money hungry; it fires it up exponentially.
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