COMMENTS:
Fundamentalism doesn't answer what _bad_ thing it has done. That is simply a label without substance.
What has Christianity done, specifically, that warrants your hatred, contempt, scorn, etc?
...but they're not the only ones...
The concept that premarital sex is evil. What were they thinking?
supported the thieving, fraudulant jew scum who stole Palestine through murder, rape and terrorism
Prohibition--
Was passed out of anti-German sentiment.
It was repealled.
Prohibition did not hurt anyone.
Abused power--
That was created or directly brought by Christianity?
People have been abusing power for aeons. Hitler was not a Christian and he certainly abused his power.
Given False Hope--
So has every weight loss product.
Multitudinal atheist politicians have also given false hope.
How do you know the hope Christians have is false? Have you died?
Child Molesting Priests--
At least this one is remotely related to Christianity (in that it accuses priests).
Is child molestation truly a dogma or direct result of Christian theology?
Wrongfully Persecuted--
Who was persecuted and which part of Christianity promoted it?
Is persecution truly a tenet of Christianity?
Ignorance as in lack of education?
Or ignorance as in posting bigoted comments as "anonymous" so people do not know you are a bigot?
Anonymous,
That is why I asked how you meant it. There are a good many "hit-n-run" artists around here who will simply fire off an insult or two and then dash away.
Anonymous,
You said Ignorance as in lack of education. Very well.
Many of Ivy League Universities were Christian.
Education in America was lead and promoted by the Christian community until late in the 19th Century. So, it can be reasonably argued that the US is where it is today technologically, in part because of early Christian influence in education.
Anonymous,
I will hold your feet to the fire.
you said:
What I meant by lack of education was Christians,more so than other religions,accept their religion/belief as the truth without questioning
What evidence do you have to support this position? Do you honestly believe that a Christian stumbles dumbly into Christianity while a Hindu makes a rational choice based on reason and fact to believe in thousands of gods?
Also, do you see how this accusation can be found offensive? It paints Christians as mindless zombies.
Also, do you think it is possible for Christians _not_ to question their decisions when from grade school on, they are force-fed a secular diet of the laudability of Science and the idiocy of Christianity? Consider this site and even your words. Do you think someone who is accused of being a mindless moron would not pause to ask himself "am I truly a zombie?" And the Christians who have been murdered in countries like the Sudan-- do you think they have simply believed, knowing it could mean their death, without contemplating the veracity of the Gospels?
You said:
As far as technology goes,that has nothing to do with spirituality.
I don't believe we were discussing spirituality. You said Christianity has created ignorance in the past 300 years and that's why it deserves your scorn. (Your actual words, ignorance as in lack of education).
Since we are discussing Education, Christianity has a very apparent bearing upon it. If it weren't for Christianity, Americans may not have been educated for the first century plus of our history. Since today is the logical result of yesterday, we can safely say we would probably not be as far advanced as we are without Christianity.
You said:
True spirituality comes from within and is not obvious,
I would opine it is fairly worthless then. While spiritual birth, regeneration, etc. are certainly internal events, if they do not affect the outward man, they are not truly spiritual. The murderer who "gets spiritual" and continues murdering, has not been "spiritually regenerated."
You said:
This is my opinion and you're free to disagree.
I have. And I am looking forward to your response.
Anonymous,
You said:
I don't know what you mean by choosing your words carefully because I haven't said anything out of order in my opinion.
You misunderstand. When I said consider this site and even your words, I was demonstrating how Christians are often painted as people who blindly follow. People who are constantly being verbally assaulted (and physically) will often pause to ask themselves, "is this real?" or "Are the skeptics right?" etc.
You said:
I'm just taking part in an above board debate.
And I am glad you are.
Anonymous,
You said:
The evidence that Christians don't question their beliefs more than others is, I believe, everywhere.
Where is everywhere? If it is everywhere, then you should be able to list off a few specific examples. I personally do not believe Christians are any more blind or unquestioning in their faith than any other person, whether that person is Hindu, Taoist, Atheist, or poopaloopist.
You said:
I never called Christians mindless morons
No, you did not. Not in so many words. You said that Christians more than other religious groups accept their religion/belief as the truth without questioning. That does seem like a very polite and diplomatic way of saying Christians are mindless zombies.
You said:
economic power such as technology has nothing to do with being more righteous than a dirt poor african country IMO.
I agree. However, the correlation is there because of a history of education, science, experimentation, etc. Since these things were first promoted by Christianity in this country, they are certainly tethered.
Anonymous,
You said:
And what does hold your feet to the fire mean?
It means I am going to call you on this and ask for evidence, citations, etc.
In general context, it means to hold someone accountable for something.
Anonymous,
We are all entitled to our opinions. The problem is that many people do not actually think about what they are saying, they simply mimick the propagandists of their community.
These days it is very en vogue to say bad things about Christians. Society and education are certain to push examples favorable to their position which is antagonistic to Christianity. For example, when I was working on my undergraduate degree, I had a geology professor who said "Scientists believe the earth is 4.6 billion years old. Some stupid Christians believe it is only around 6,000 years old."
There really was no need for his attack against Christians. His commentary, like that of many other educators, was meant to show his contempt and to inspire contempt in his students.
I agree that there are many "nominal" Christians. These are those people who claim to be Christians but do not read their Bibles, attend church, or live like believers.
There are also those who say -- my mother was a Baptist, my father was a Baptist, I will die a Baptist. These may accept the dogma of Baptists, Methodists, etc. but many also make a conscious decision to read, study, etc.
Then there are those who convert to Christianity knowing it could mean their torture or death. Look at Christians in the Sudan, China, Russia (moreso, the USSR), etc. They converted inspite of the foreseeable consequences.
_All_ belief systems require a bit of faith. Even Atheism and Secularism require faith. Although they do not require faith in a Supreme Being, they demand the person has faith that the rest of the world is wrong and that there _is_ nothing. These people often put their faith in science and the material. ie, I can't see God, therefore He does not exist.
As you grow, I hope you will question everything and apply logic. Dare to be different from the rest of the world by realizing much of what you see, hear, and read in the media and school is propaganda. History is owned by the contemporary culture and the victors of wars. For example, do you think the Chinese government brags about how free the US is and how despotic they are? But I have fallen off topic. Simply put, do not believe everything you hear, even if it is what you _want_ to hear.
I fail to see how it is Christianities fault that people pervert the truth. If I molest a child and say, "I'm a priest", by no means does that mean that it is in some way God's fault for what I did. If I walked into a store and said, "In the name of my mother, I will steal these groceries", does that mean that it is my mom who stole those groceries? Should my mom be punished for my crime? Can anyone blame my mom for my crime? I don't see how it is any different with God. Because God gives us a free will to do good or evil, many will choose to do evil, but in no way does that reflect on God as the one to blame. I think allot of that comes from peoples tendency to want to blame others for anything that goes wrong, you may need to examine yourself on that wrong. Thanks
Anonymous,
You said:
I was a Christian before I became disillusioned
Why did you become disillusioned?
You said:
(error in image display) started researching every religion and belief that I could find.
And what did you find?
Anonymous:
You said:
My niece is 7 years old and she has told me that jesus died on the cross for our sins and he was born on christmas day ...
No offense, but this is a rather pitiful argument. You cannot say that Christianity lead a seven year old to ignorance. Children, by nature, trust what adults tell them. They do not have the experience or cognitive ability to reason about such things as eternity, infinity, or life 20 years ago or from now.
You are living proof of the contrary argument. You said you were a Christian and are no longer. So, Christianity did not make you ignorant. Nor did you continue to believe what you were told once you grew older.
wars for Jesus
Which wars were those?
Some wars since 1704:
Gulf 2
Gulf 1
Korean
Vietnam
Cuban Revolution
American Revolution
American Civil War
French Revolution
Bolshevik Revolution
WW 1
WW 2
1812
French Indian
Eritrea Ethiopia
Crimean
Rhodesia, etc.
Consider also:
Communism and socialism are the purest of economic theory, completely unencumbered by any hint of Christian fundamentalism. Yet, together, the rulers of communist and socialist nations have imprisoned, maimed and slaughtered more people than the last two world wars combined. According to the UN Genocide convention, Stalin alone killed 62 million people, slaughtering more Ukrainians then his nearest mustache-laden rival.
GW Bush--
Christianity did not introduce GW to the world.
Hypocrites--
Hypocrisy is not unique to Christianity. There are many non-Christians today who are hypocrites. For example, consider many of the PC people who scream for tolerance, and yet they tend to be some of the most intolerant people when the question is about Christianity.
Moreover, the Bible condemns hypocrisy.
Guest_e53,
You said:
Hey Anti_Yankee, If you dont mind me asking, what religion do you associate yourself with (if any at all)?
I don't mind. I am a Christian.
YOU SAID:
What Beliefs do you have?
Mostly traditional, though I differ some. I celebrate Christmas and Easter, but as customary holidays, not "Christian" days. I am aware of their roots and as such do not try to assign some additional value to them. I believe every day should be like Christmas. I believe in the necessity of salvation, but also know that it is a decision each person must come to him- or herself. The legislation of a religion, or theocracy, does not save people, it only creates hypocrites. So, I consider myself and my beliefs very "Fundamental" and naturally tolerant.
YOU SAID:
I Will tell you that I am an Athiest, but I do not have anything against spiritual people.
That's very good. Many of my closest friends are Athiests. They are also rather tolerant. It is truly unfortunate that both camps, the secular and non-secular, have their share of people who are intolerant and would force their beliefs on others.
Jesana
You said:
killing jews is wrong , wrong wrong
ok. What has that got to do with this poll?
Guest_88702,
I heard you the first time.
By your logic, then integration should be illegal. All national borders should be closed and the global government should outlaw international travel.
See how American culture has changed since the Civil Rights movement. Rock-n-roll, hip-hop, rap, interracial marriages, African-American superstars, etc. Are you saying we should do away with Civil Rights and return to Jim Crow laws so the cultures are not decimated?
Also, can you give some very specific examples where Christianity decimated a culture in the past 300 years?
Tidbits From The Jewish Talmud:
Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Non-Jews are Not Human Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men").
Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals ("she-asses").
Jews are Divine, Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.
O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews, Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
Jews Have Superior Legal Status, Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
Jews May Steal from Non-Jews, Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Sanhedrin 76a . God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews, Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
If I had to say what I thought to be the worst thing the Christian Church has brought into the world in the last 300 years I would have to answer:
The perpetuation of the idea that God had a Son who sacrificed his life for the sins of everybody on earth (even up til today), and the idea that the Bible is truth. Also for perpetuating the idea that if you do not accept Christ as your own personal saviour you are going to Hell for eternity.
I think these ideas are repulsive and wrong. I reckon God likes our individuality. Why should you have to belong to some earthly organisation to prove you how spiritual you are? Why should you have to profess your loyalty and devotion to a person/God incarnate/thing that you can only know through a book to reach the source of all life that is already within you?
Judaized Christianity has become one of the most effective weapon of WESTERN IMPERIALISM !
"homo sinner priests and their go-boy cardinals doing the 'hide the ham' for jesus"
by Anonymous on Dec 14, 2004
As far as the American Catholic church is concerned those acts were made possible by liberal bishops who were appointed in the 60's.No doubt that attracting only men who will never marry lends itself to the problem.There is a movement within the American Catholic church among the laity to rectify the fact that these bishops only appoint priests who are liberal and shun those who are traditionalists from becoming priests.There is actually a published book titled(I could be off)"Goodbye goodmen of the catholic church" by a devout catholic that addresses this very issue.
It is no defense for the catholic church but the large majority of the clergy and all of the laity do care as much as anybody here.For the most part preists are selfless people who devote their life to trying to help people.I know that's not hip to say here but I don't care.
I am a Christian, but I recognize the evil perpetrated by those who have claimed to know the literal interpretation of the Bible - burning heretics, wars in the name of Christ, supporting slavery and segregation, persecuting homosexuals, and causing division everywhere. If we focus on Christ's life and message of love, compassion, sacrifice, and non-judgment, things would be a lot better....
Judaized Christianity based wars in the middle east are the greatest danger in the world right now.
"The Faith" was created by Constantine,to encourage conversion to "The Faith" he adopted symbols, such as the Pentagram, and in doing so condemed many cultures to exstinction. Christianity has brought this world more pain than any other thing.
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