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COMMENTS:
The IDF have become the new age Nazis. Since 1967, Israel has occupied Palestinian territories acquired by force, directly violating UN Resolutions 242 and 338. Why did the US invade Iraq? Violation of UN resolutions. The US demanded the enforcemdnt of the Iraqi Resolutions and started and ilegal war based on these. However they seem to support selective enforcement of Security Council resolutions related to the Middle East. Iraq got punished for deeds similar to those committed by Israel: invading neighbors, accumulating destructive weapons and human rights violations.
In October 2003, Israel bombed Syria to punish Damascus for backing terrorism. Israel furnished no evidence. The Security Council did not condemn Israel for that act of aggression. But the Council now demands the withdrawal of foreign forces from Lebanon, without mentioning Israel's continued occupation of Syria's Golan Heights. In 1981, the Council passed Resolution 497, calling Israel's jurisdiction there "null and void and without international legal effect."
I'm not anti Jewish. I have no feelings on Jews one way or the other. It disgust me however when Americans & Israelis label those who are anti Israeli as being anti semite. As far as I'm concerned the IDF are not better than the SS.
BP Ireland.
by B_P on Fri Sep 17, 04 6:38am
[+]
THIS is why we should stop supporting Israel. Screw them.
SS? Do you imply that it's SS methods? Does it say anything about the Germans in general? And was it routinal behaviour for the SS or just one event thing - like it is in Israel's example? And what were the measures taken against the SS men who did so, if any were taken?
by Yosi on Fri Sep 17, 04 12:20pm
[+]
Can't come up with an excuse for this Yosi?
It isn't a one time thing, this crap happens all the time.
Yes, as Yosi is fast learning, this kind of behavior is absolutely inexcusable. It just so happens that ignorant people these days are prone to attribution to the SS of all sorts of bad behavior. Actually, the SS would have considered such behavior as this completely beneath them. So, if I have impugned SS sensibilities, I apologize.
I suppose I inadvertently handed Yosi some ammunition. It won't be long now before we hear stories of Jews in eastern Europe having been forced to drink the urine of SS men.
Actually, I think it is only the sickened mind of Talmudic Jew that could conceive of 'entertainment' so revolting and foul.
Nobody justifies such behaviour. The soldiers who participated will be tried and sent to prison. Anyway, I haven't heard about such exact acts that the SS did, but their list is long and diversified.
by Yosi on Sat Sep 18, 04 2:32pm
[+]
'Nobody justifies such behavior. The soldiers who participated will be tried and sent to prison.'
The soldiers themselves obviously endorse it. Yosi, do you expect us to believe that the lax disciplinary nature of the Israeli 'army,' which picks on civilians with impunity, is in any way comparable to what was once the finest fighting force in the world - Germany? What a laugh!
'Anyway, I haven't heard about such exact acts that the SS did, but their list is long and diversified.'
That is your perspective. The German archives show that SS law explicitly contained penalties for Vernichtung - that is, murder, of camp inmates, and there were high-level SS men convicted of this crime. If murder was in fact official state policy, then, why punish the supposed murderers?
" The soldiers themselves obviously endorse it. Yosi, do you expect us to believe that the lax disciplinary nature of the Israeli 'army,' which picks on civilians with impunity, is in any way comparable to what was once the finest fighting force in the world - Germany? What a laugh! "
Maybe the soldier who had done it, endorses it. I can't understand why when such isolated event is done by Israeli soldier, it reflects upon Israel in general, while for example the abusing case of Iraqis by Americans doesn't lead anyone (at least in the western world) to claim that all Americans are animals like those soldiers, and they treat the rest as inferior to them from some racial or other superiority complex. Unfortunately, in Germany, the same people who are usually that minority, rose to power and brainwashed many others to actually believe in their superiority, which allows such savage acts against others.
" That is your perspective. The German archives show that SS law explicitly contained penalties for Vernichtung - that is, murder, of camp inmates, and there were high-level SS men convicted of this crime. If murder was in fact official state policy, then, why punish the supposed murderers? "
Remember the Himmler's speech I quoted once? Why wasn't he arrested for murder? Why did those who committed the long knives' night weren't arrested?
BTW, Do you know what was the punishment for SS man who had sex with a jew? Death.
by Yosi on Sun Sep 19, 04 5:48am
[+]
'Maybe the soldier who had done it, endorses it.'
No, it was soldiers, in the plural. Am I to believe just one soldier collected bottles of his own urine for the purpose of forcing detainees to drink it? For the sake of your case, would that it were so. But this is just patently ridiculous.
'...they treat the rest as inferior to them from some racial or other superiority complex.'
And is it your opinion that Israeli Jews are above such complexes? If so, the Talmud, and its resonances, put the lie to your claim.
In a way, your contention is, in and of itself, indicative of a superiority complex. Or perhaps you didn't notice that. ;)
'Unfortunately, in Germany, the same people who are usually that minority, rose to power and brainwashed many others to actually believe in their superiority, which allows such savage acts against others.'
Well, now, you're talking like a condescending 8th grade history teacher in the US. Personally, I don't think the mechanism was all that simplistic.
'Remember Himmler's speech I quoted once? Why wasn't he arrested for murder?'
You would have to prove that Himmler's words denoted actual systematic murder. Without physical evidence, this is impossible.
'Why did those who committed the Night of the Long Knives not arrested?'
Good question. But this was the murder of Germans by Germans. Actually, this serves to tear down the idea that Jews were singled out and persecuted by the Soviet communists. But that is another argument.
'BTW, Do you know what was the punishment for SS man who had sex with a Jew? Death.'
Such violaters of the Nuremberg laws were thrown into camps, which does not necessarily guarantee death. But what does sex with a Jew have to do with the murder of Jews?
Big deal. I drink urine all the time. High in essential ammonia.
" And is it your opinion that Israeli Jews are above such complexes? If so, the Talmud, and its resonances, put the lie to your claim. "
Nobody knows the talmud, and the scripts that the soldiers do follow - like IDF ethics code etc. has no talmudic resonance, as it's similiar to the codes of the rest of the armies worldwide. I'll give you that - the Israeli army do have high standarts for protecting his soldiers' lives, as well as preventing too much collateral damage, but I don't view this as bad thing. Cheney once said to Israeli family whose soldier son was kidnapped and held for 18 years, nobody knows where and whether he is dead or alive - why do you make such a big deal out of it in Israel, the US still has hundreds of missing soldiers from Vietnam. You can dress it however you want, I don't think it's because of any superiority complex, and I certainly acknowledge each nation's right to act the same in such cases, but as Cheney said, it's often not the case.
" Well, now, you're talking like a condescending 8th grade history teacher in the US. Personally, I don't think the mechanism was all that simplistic. "
When you have state directed crimes - and I don't just mean the killing, take the forced labour for example - to abduct Poles from their home, and send them to German factories in slave conditions, isn't very enlightened.
" You would have to prove that Himmler's words denoted actual systematic murder. Without physical evidence, this is impossible. "
I won't be surprised if that stood behind the trials you mentioned - the defendant should have provide physical evidences for his crimes.
" Such violaters of the Nuremberg laws were thrown into camps, which does not necessarily guarantee death. But what does sex with a Jew have to do with the murder of Jews? "
No - specifically to SS men (whose racial purity was very important), death was the punishment. It just shows what kind of moral code that was.
by Yosi on Mon Sep 20, 04 2:07am
[+]
yosi..is a mother fucking comfised fucking jew.
He knows Jews are the cunts of society..yet he is trying t hang on to what the Zionists have indoctrinated him...YOSI mother fucker...you hate Jews...and you are struggling with your Jewishness..I will tell you this...any Jews supporting Zionistsm will soon be burnt alive like witches..in Madison Square Garden...you better repet before that day comes..because it is coming before 2009,,Jews will be gone forever and ever AMEN...make your choice...JEW fuck..time is running our for you CUNTS of The WORLD
'Big deal. I drink urine all the time. High in essential ammonia.'
Do you drink own, or the urine of others?
'Big deal. I drink urine all the time. High in essential ammonia.'
Do you drink your own, or the urine of others?
'Nobody knows the Talmud, and the scripts that the soldiers do follow - like the IDF ethics code, etc., have no Talmudic resonance, as it's similiar to the codes of the rest of the armies worldwide.'
They receive sermons from rabbis all the time, Yosi. They listen to Israeli radio.
'...the Israeli army do have high standards for protecting the soldiers' lives, as well as preventing too much collateral damage, but I don't view this as bad thing.'
The very invention of the term 'collateral damage' for the death of innocents, as if they were mere property, is enough to sicken a true and honest ethicist.
'Cheney once said to Israeli family whose soldier son was kidnapped and held for 18 years, nobody knows where and whether he is dead or alive - why do you make such a big deal out of it in Israel, the US still has hundreds of missing soldiers from Vietnam.'
Dick Cheney is a pretender and a liar who oversaw the entire 9-11 operation. So, to me, his sentiments ring hollow no matter what he says.
'When you have state directed crimes - and I don't just mean the killing, take the forced labor for example - to abduct Poles from their home, and send them to German factories in slave conditions, it isn't very enlightened.'
It is in the mind of a true believer in Nazism. That's the part I think people fail to understand. They simply saw in the leader Hitler the possibility for a 'brave new world.' These people were not brainwashed, unless you are willing to admit your own people's susceptibility to brainwashing. So far, you have not.
'I wouldn't be surprised if that is what stood behind the trials you mentioned - that the defendant should have had to provide physical evidences for his crimes.'
Ah, but that too would have disqualified these 'trials' as having been fair. To be sure, they were not fair, especially as most of them were conducted under American auspices. To do as you suggested would have violated the American concept of the right against self-incrimination.
'No - specifically to SS men (whose racial purity was very important), death was the punishment. It just shows what kind of moral code that was.'
There were SS men who simply tossed into concentration camps. You forget the actual stated purpose of the German concentration camps. They were created for the purpose of reform. Many Germans simply served their time and were released. This would have been true also for Jews and others if they had not posed a threat to the state, as the Germans saw it - what with a declaration of war in 1933.
" They receive sermons from rabbis all the time, Yosi. They listen to Israeli radio. "
There are very little radio stations, that are defined as orthodox ones, and most of them are illegal. It doesn't work that way, and any Radio station or Rabbi that spreads racist propeganda or preaches, for that matter to hurt the Arabs, is arrested, like many of Goldstein's group members.
" The very invention of the term 'collateral damage' for the death of innocents, as if they were mere property, is enough to sicken a true and honest ethicist. "
Should I search and translate the accurate code? I articulated it that way because it's shorter and you know what it means.
" It is in the mind of a true believer in Nazism. That's the part I think people fail to understand. They simply saw in the leader Hitler the possibility for a 'brave new world.' These people were not brainwashed, unless you are willing to admit your own people's susceptibility to brainwashing. So far, you have not. "
You'll have to clarify that.
" Ah, but that too would have disqualified these 'trials' as having been fair. To be sure, they were not fair, especially as most of them were conducted under American auspices. To do as you suggested would have violated the American concept of the right against self-incrimination. "
I should have mentioned that I was being cynical. I meant that in order to convict a SS member, he should've provide the incriminating evidences, if he didn't, they probably assumed that there aren't evidences.
" There were SS men who simply tossed into concentration camps"
No argument there.
" They were created for the purpose of reform. Many Germans simply served their time and were released. This would have been true also for Jews and others if they had not posed a threat to the state, as the Germans saw it - what with a declaration of war in 1933. "
Can I interpert it as aproval of locking up all Palestinians indefinately because of the threat they pose to Israel? In that case, we would have been some kind of new SS, according to your admitted view about the SS.
by Yosi on Tue Sep 21, 04 7:57am
[+]
There are very little radio stations, that are defined as orthodox ones, and most of them are illegal. It doesn't work that way, and any Radio station or Rabbi that spreads racist propeganda or preaches, for that matter to hurt the Arabs, is arrested, like many of Goldstein's group members.'
I don't believe it, because a rabbi can always cite the Talmud in his own defense. Is the Israeli government going to ban the Talmud? No!
'Should I search and translate the accurate code? I articulated it that way because it's shorter and you know what it means.'
Yes, I know what it means, and it sickens me.
'These people were not brainwashed, unless you are willing to admit your own people's susceptibility to brainwashing. So far, you have not.'
Are Jews unique in their ability to resist brainwashing?
'I should have mentioned that I was being cynical. I meant that in order to convict a SS member, he should've provide the incriminating evidences, if he didn't, they probably assumed that there aren't evidences.'
And yet they were convicted anyway. What is the point of subpoenaing evidence if it is to have no bearing on the outcome of a trial?
'No argument there.'
I forgot the word 'were.' 'There were SS men who WERE themselves simply tossed into concentration camps,' is what I meant to say.
'Can I interpret it as approval of locking up all Palestinians indefinitely because of the threat they pose to Israel?'
You'll have to prove that there is indeed a threat BEYOND that of the so-called suicide bombings. Similar bombings occur in Northern Ireland, but no one talks of locking up anyone other than members of the IRA.
'In that case, we would have been some kind of new SS, according to your admitted view about the SS.'
No, the point is this: It is one thing to call Auschwitz a concentration camp, if one endeavors to adhere to that term's actual meaning. The British invented the term, 'concentration camp,' by the way. It is quite another to exaggerate that camp's raison d'etre as being a 'death camp.'
" I don't believe it, because a rabbi can always cite the Talmud in his own defense. Is the Israeli government going to ban the Talmud? No! "
Are you assuming? Will that truth set you free?
" Yes, I know what it means, and it sickens me. "
Don't you get sick by your way of excusing the Nazis action in an effort to portray them as something acceptable?
" Are Jews unique in their ability to resist brainwashing? "
No, but I still don't get it.
" You'll have to prove that there is indeed a threat BEYOND that of the so-called suicide bombings. Similar bombings occur in Northern Ireland, but no one talks of locking up anyone other than members of the IRA. "
Again, what was the threat the jews posed to Germany? There is no lack of examples of Arabs trying to destroy Israel, some even by economic ways...
" No, the point is this: It is one thing to call Auschwitz a concentration camp, if one endeavors to adhere to that term's actual meaning. The British invented the term, 'concentration camp,' by the way. It is quite another to exaggerate that camp's raison d'etre as being a 'death camp.' "
I was talking about the correct meaning of concentration camp. Death camps is a different name for a different thing. Concentration camp is simply a jail with no cells, designed to contain much more prisoners.
by Yosi on Thu Sep 23, 04 1:58am
[+]
'Are you assuming? Will that truth set you free?'
Would the Israeli government ban the Talmud? Why don't you just answer the question?
'Don't you get sick excusing the Nazis' actions in an effort to portray them as something acceptable?'
Don't YOU get sick of excusing the actions of the IDF in an effort to portray THEM as something acceptable?
'Again, what was the threat the Jews posed to Germany?'
Economic strangulation.
'There is no lack of examples of Arabs trying to destroy Israel, some even by economic ways...'
Suicide bombings are an act of desperation. There is hardly a chance that such tactics could ever destroy 'Israel.' The only economic impact the Palestinians could have is to go on a general strike, thus depriving the Israelis of many manual laborers.
'I was talking about the correct meaning of concentration camp. Death camps is a different name for a different thing. Concentration camp is simply a jail with no cells, designed to contain much more prisoners.'
Yes, and that is exactly what the so-called 'death camps' were.
" Would the Israeli government ban the Talmud? Why don't you just answer the question? "
Israel will arrest Rabbis that call for killing Arabs, no matter what is their justification for this. I guess the talmud alone doesn't fall into that definition - some manipulation must be done, like you did, to justify killing gentiles, and some do it. They're in Israeli arrest.
" Don't YOU get sick of excusing the actions of the IDF in an effort to portray THEM as something acceptable? "
When the IDF will get close to the Nazis' numbers, I'll question it.
" Suicide bombings are an act of desperation. There is hardly a chance that such tactics could ever destroy 'Israel.' The only economic impact the Palestinians could have is to go on a general strike, thus depriving the Israelis of many manual laborers. "
Oh, no... Haven't you heard about the Oil crisis of 1973? The sieges on Israeli ports? I don't even need to mention that the Arabs don't buy Israeli products, so is that good enough reason to lock them all up?
" Yes, and that is exactly what the so-called 'death camps' were. "
I don't recall millions of prisoners getting out of Aushwitz after the Russians conquered it.
by Yosi on Fri Sep 24, 04 5:08am
[+]
'When the IDF will get close to the Nazis' numbers, I'll question it.'
Oh, I see. So, until the fantastic number of 6 million is approached, the IDF can do whatever it pleases.
Yeah, that's great, Yosi. So much for 'never again.'
'I don't recall millions of prisoners getting out of Auschwitz after the Russians conquered it.'
Neither do I, first, because the camp could not contain that many people, and second, what people it did contain were, for the most part, moved westward with the German retreat.
" Oh, I see. So, until the fantastic number of 6 million is approached, the IDF can do whatever it pleases. "
In the current pace, it would take 8000 years.
" Neither do I, first, because the camp could not contain that many people, and second, what people it did contain were, for the most part, moved westward with the German retreat. "
So the millions who were sent to the death camps ended up back in the Reich? So Hitler is that incompetent?
by Yosi on Sat Sep 25, 04 7:55am
[+]
'In the current pace, it would take 8000 years.'
Oh, even better. So, for at least the next 8000 years Jews will be perfect? Perfect.
'So the millions who were sent to the death camps ended up back in the Reich? So Hitler is that incompetent?'
Or, they were sent to other camps. Hitler, in this instance, only looks incompetent because a policy of extermination, for you, is a foregone conclusion even without proof. You're lost in a world of fantasy.
" Or, they were sent to other camps. Hitler, in this instance, only looks incompetent because a policy of extermination, for you, is a foregone conclusion even without proof. You're lost in a world of fantasy. "
According to you, his goal was to clean the Reich from jews, so instead of the 700,000 jews in the Reich, that he began with, he ended up with millions...
by Yosi on Sun Sep 26, 04 3:15am
[+]
'According to you, his goal was to clean the Reich of Jews, so instead of the 700,000 Jews in the Reich, that he began with, he ended up with millions...'
Well, he also desired lebensraum - living space, for people of Aryan blood, and he expected Jews to leave this area. It's no different from Israeli calls for the 'transfer' of the Palestinians.
Yosi, I told you that the IDF men receive sermons from rabbis all the time. Many of them listen to a radio station called Kol Yisrael that just last year broadcast a series of sermons from the Talmudist and Kabbalist Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz. So, yes, they know the Talmud, or at least the pertinent parts as they relate to the 'work' they are doing in the occupied territories.
" Well, he also desired lebensraum - living space, for people of Aryan blood, and he expected Jews to leave this area. It's no different from Israeli calls for the 'transfer' of the Palestinians. "
Yeah, but Israeli voters didn't placed them as their leaders...
" Yosi, I told you that the IDF men receive sermons from rabbis all the time. Many of them listen to a radio station called Kol Yisrael that just last year broadcast a series of sermons from the Talmudist and Kabbalist Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz. So, yes, they know the Talmud, or at least the pertinent parts as they relate to the 'work' they are doing in the occupied territories. "
I doubt it. It was probably different from what you presented it as. No state radio station would broadcast the things you claim that the talmud says.
by Yosi on Tue Sep 28, 04 4:51am
[+]
'Yeah, but Israeli voters didn't placed them as their leaders.'
Oh, I suppose election to the Knesset doesn't count as a leadership position, eh?
'I doubt it. It was probably different from the way you presented it. No state radio station would broadcast the things you claim that the Talmud says.'
Why not? The Talmud says these things. Is it not the spiritual backbone of Judaism? Why keep it under wraps? Are there no practicing IDF men?
" Oh, I suppose election to the Knesset doesn't count as a leadership position, eh? "
The parties which do support transfer has currently 7 seats out of Knesset's 120. Even less than Arabs' seats.
" Why not? The Talmud says these things. Is it not the spiritual backbone of Judaism? Why keep it under wraps? Are there no practicing IDF men? "
You can't say such things, no matter where you took it from. These days, Rabbis which issue Pulsa Denura or other religious commands against Sharon, because of his plan to evacuate parts of Israel, those Rabbis are arrested for incitement to murder.
by Yosi on Sun Oct 03, 04 11:49am
[+]
'You can't say such things, no matter where you took it from.'
That's a rather tall order, Yosi - especially for someone from a supposedly 'democratic' country.
'These days, Rabbis which issue Pulsa Denura or other religious commands against Sharon, because of his plan to evacuate parts of Israel, those Rabbis are arrested for incitement to murder.'
Oh, really? Why were the very same rabbi who pronounced the curse against Yitzchak Rabin not arrested in time to prevent HIS murder? Hmm?
" That's a rather tall order, Yosi - especially for someone from a supposedly 'democratic' country. "
That's exactly what those who incite to murder based on racial or religious issues say. Anyway, it's not clear cut thing, but the guidelines are : You can say whatever you want, as long as you don't incite to crimes (mostly killings, violence etc.). As for running to the Knesset, your agenda can't involve : a) Racism b) Canceling Israel's definition as the jews' state c) Canceling Israel's definition as democratic state.
Kahana's group was disqualified for 1992 elections for racism, radical socialists were disqualified in the 1960's because of the other two. I don't know any other examples.
" Oh, really? Why were the very same rabbi who pronounced the curse against Yitzchak Rabin not arrested in time to prevent HIS murder? Hmm? "
I don't think it's specifically the same Rabbi, but it's the same group. Today's laws are the lesson of Rabin's assasination, but what is your point?
by Yosi on Mon Oct 04, 04 5:27am
[+]
It is the exact same rabbi, Yosi. And my point is summed up in the following article:
''You have to laugh. The rock star formerly known as Madonna (now named 'Esther') is in the Israeli state on Kabbalah pilgrimage, grooving on the graveyard dust of genocidal rabbis like Shimon ('Even the best of the Gentiles should all be killed') ben Yohai, and trying to put a trippy love vibe on the superstitious, murderous mess that is the Kabbalah. So who throws the monkey wrench into this blissful scenario? None other than a Kabbalist, Rabbi Yosef Dayan, from the West Bank settlement of Psagot, who, on Sept. 14, told Israeli Channel Two news that if asked to hold a 'Pulsa Denura,' (a black magic Kabbalah ceremony aimed at putting a death curse on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon), he would do so. Rabbi Dayan conducted such a ceremony targeting former prime minister Yitzhak Rabin prior to Rabin's assassination in 1995. And Madonna/Esther is spreading this contagion all over the world. Groovy!''
http://www.
revisionisthistory.
org/news.html
What's that? He admitted his intention to a news organization? As far as I can determine, Dayan was not prosecuted for his curse against Rabin, and thus far, Israeli police have done nothing about it the latest one. You're all wet, Yosi.
'That's exactly what those who incite to murder based on racial or religious issues say. Anyway, it's not clear cut thing, but the guidelines are : You can say whatever you want, as long as you don't incite to crimes (mostly killings, violence etc.).'
I don't believe it.
'As for running to the Knesset, your agenda can't involve : a) Racism...'
Okay, then. So, if you're a Talmudist, then running for a seat in the Knesset is out of the question. Really? Well, then, why can Ariel Sharon read from the Talmud - the admitted source of Kahane's racism (cf. CBS' 60 Minutes program), in the Knesset?
'b) Canceling Israel's definition as the Jews' state c) Canceling Israel's definition as democratic state.
Kahane's group was disqualified for 1992 elections for racism, radical socialists were disqualified in the 1960's because of the other two. I don't know any other examples.'
Former Kach party devotees have since joined other parties with barely a shift in policy. Either the stigma was never applied or else it was simply not taken seriously by Israeli voters.
Many Pulasa Denura were done in Rabin's term, by much more important and serious Rabbis than the current one (who turned out to be Hazooy citinzen, not actual Rabbi). I guess Kaballah isn't about racism and hating gentiles, if Esther or whatever is so in to it. No racist stuff was said in the Kaballah summits Madona attended, so maybe you're wrong, and what you portray as Kaballah's core isn't the actual one.
" What's that? He admitted his intention to a news organization? As far as I can determine, Dayan was not prosecuted for his curse against Rabin, and thus far, Israeli police have done nothing about it the latest one. You're all wet, Yosi. "
The crime is to perform publicly the Pulsa Denura, not to declare that he will, but as far as I know, he was arrested and released to house arrest, untill it'll be clarified if he can be tried for commiting a crime by proclaiming that he's going to perform Pulsa Denura.
" I don't believe it. "
They arrested Sheikh Ra'ed Salah, of the radical northern group of Arab Israelis, after he expressed support, and preached for Israeli Arabs to actively support the Palestinian armed struggle. He broke the same law as some Kahana group members broke.
" Okay, then. So, if you're a Talmudist, then running for a seat in the Knesset is out of the question. Really? Well, then, why can Ariel Sharon read from the Talmud - the admitted source of Kahane's racism (cf. CBS' 60 Minutes program), in the Knesset? "
Once it'll be written in Sharon's platform, that all gentiles are animals etc., he'll be banned and even expelled from the Knesset. Quoting other parts of the talmud doesn't mean that he believe in all what's written there, or your interpertation to it.
" Former Kach party devotees have since joined other parties with barely a shift in policy. Either the stigma was never applied or else it was simply not taken seriously by Israeli voters"
You can't persecute people personally, you can only ban parties that support racism etc. Michael Kleiner for example, is a former kahanist, who joined and represented the Likuud and Herut, as part of the National Union party. Both parties don't have racist platform, and if Kleiner specifically holds such positions, it's the parties' problem. He is committed to the Party line, however. In the last election he withdrew his party - Herut from the national union and ran seperately as the ultra right party, and his party's platform was approved. His old friend from Kach joined him - Marzal, but he got only 1.1 percent of the votes, not getting into the Knesset (minimum of 1.5 percent)
by Yosi on Mon Oct 04, 04 11:04am
[+]
'Many Pulsa Denura were done in Rabin's term, by much more important and serious rabbis than the current one (who turned out to be Hazooy citizen, and not an actual Rabbi).'
What? Are the Shin Bet too busy beating up and sodomizing Palestinians in prison?
'I guess Kaballah isn't about racism and hating gentiles, if Esther or whatever is so in to it.'
Is a dumb 'shiksa' like Madonna going to have any meaningful clue whatsoever? Kabbalah is all about racism.
'No racist stuff was said in the Kaballah summits Madona attended, so maybe you're wrong, and what you portray as Kaballah's core isn't the actual one.'
Oh, brother, Yosi! Do you expect rabbis like Yehuda Berg to stupidly ruin his 'cash cow' that way? You are so naive when it comes to these things.
'The crime is to perform publicly the Pulsa Denura, not to declare that he will, but as far as I know, he was arrested and released to house arrest, until it is clarified that he can be tried for committing a crime by proclaiming that he's going to perform Pulsa Denura.'
Obviously, it's not quite as cut and dried as you would like me to believe. It sounds to me as though there are huge loopholes through which these rabbis are encouraged to climb.
They arrested Sheikh Ra'ed Salah, of the radical northern group of Arab Israelis, after he expressed support, and preached for Israeli Arabs to actively support the Palestinian armed struggle. He broke the same law as some Kahana group members broke.
Yes, sheikhs get thrown in prison, while those former Kach jerks walk, free to join other political parties. That's some racket you got going over there.
'Once it is written in Sharon's platform that all gentiles are animals, etc., he'll be banned and even expelled from the Knesset.'
If he survives the Pulsa Denura of Yosef Dayan, I doubt it.
'Quoting other parts of the Talmud doesn't mean that he believes in all that is written there, or your interpertation to it.'
Politician quote words for a reason, depending on to whom they speaking. With the Talmud, the meaning is quite often as plain as the words on the page, and if not it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure what is being said.
You can't persecute people personally, you can only ban parties that support racism etc.'
You can arrest, abuse, and assassinate sheikhs and imams. Oops! I forgot. They do not fall into the category of 'people.' Too bad, I guess.
" What? Are the Shin Bet too busy beating up and sodomizing Palestinians in prison? "
by Yosi on Tue Oct 05, 04 4:25am
[+]
" What? Are the Shin Bet too busy beating up and sodomizing Palestinians in prison? "
You also think that the Shin Beth killed Rabin?
" Is a dumb 'shiksa' like Madonna going to have any meaningful clue whatsoever? Kabbalah is all about racism. "
Why do they teach it to gentiles, if it's all about racism?
" Oh, brother, Yosi! Do you expect rabbis like Yehuda Berg to stupidly ruin his 'cash cow' that way? You are so naive when it comes to these things. "
It is an indicator for the lack of racism in the actual kaballah. You're naive if you think that there are 2 kabbalahs - one for gentiles, and the correct one for jews.
" Obviously, it's not quite as cut and dried as you would like me to believe. It sounds to me as though there are huge loopholes through which these rabbis are encouraged to climb. "
Even Rabbis has freedom of speech. The problem is exactly where to end it. Anyway, any restriction on freedom of speech doesn't encourage anyone to say things in that region.
" Yes, sheikhs get thrown in prison, while those former Kach jerks walk, free to join other political parties. That's some racket you got going over there. "
Former Kach members can't be thrown to prison based on what they think, only on what they do. Those who do break the law, or even there's a suspect that they'll do extreme actions - can be arrested.
" Politician quote words for a reason, depending on to whom they speaking. With the Talmud, the meaning is quite often as plain as the words on the page, and if not it doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure what is being said. "
Give some credit to Israeli judges. Some are even not jewish.
" You can arrest, abuse, and assassinate sheikhs and imams. Oops! I forgot. They do not fall into the category of 'people.' Too bad, I guess. "
What I said, isn't rocket science either - people and parties restrictions aren't the same thing. If Herut member will say racist stuff, he won't be jailed, unless it can be proven he incited to crimes against minorities. Even if it does, that doesn't change the legal status of Herut, as long as it doesn't written in their platform.
by Yosi on Tue Oct 05, 04 4:37am
[+]
'You also think that the Shin Beth killed Rabin?'
No, it's their job to investigate and arrest the perpetrators. As far as anyone knows, Rabin was shot by a young talmid at the behest of his rabbis.
'Why do they teach it to gentiles, if it's all about racism?'
They teach only a watered-down version to dumb goyas like Madonna and Britney Spears. They rarely glimpse the true racism of Kabbalah, and if by accident they do, they will usually deny its legitimacy, thinking that their 'Kabbalah' is the authoritative version.
'It is an indicator for the lack of racism in the actual Kabbalah.'
The actual Kabbalah calls gentiles 'klippot' - husks or shells that are irredeemably evil.
'You're naive if you think that there are 2 Kabbalahs - one for gentiles, and the correct one for Jews.'
Neither one is correct. Both are composed of pure fiction. It's just that because the Jews' numbers are so small the rabbis must enlist Gentiles in their scheme in order to bring about the desired changes in the world. The naivete is yours alone.
'Former Kach members can't be thrown to prison based on what they think...'
But sheikhs can. Just as there are two Kabbalahs for Jews and goyim, so are there two laws. And YOU are the one to constantly complain about double standards?!
'Give some credit to Israeli judges. Some are even not Jewish.'
You want ME to extend CREDIT to some non-Jewish sell-out, who throws his lot in with your crowd? Fat chance.
'What I said isn't rocket science either. People and parties' restrictions aren't the same thing. If a Herut member says racist stuff, he won't be jailed, unless it can be proven he incited to crimes against minorities. Even if it does, that doesn't change the legal status of Herut, as long as it isn't written in their platform.'
Hmm...Isn't that convenient? If an American politician so much as hints at a racist attitude against anyone but Arabs and Muslims these days, he is run out of office on a rail. In your country it's just business as usual.
" No, it's their job to investigate and arrest the perpetrators. As far as anyone knows, Rabin was shot by a young talmid at the behest of his rabbis "
Well there are numerous conspiracy theories...
" They teach only a watered-down version to dumb goyas like Madonna and Britney Spears. They rarely glimpse the true racism of Kabbalah, and if by accident they do, they will usually deny its legitimacy, thinking that their 'Kabbalah' is the authoritative version. "
And yet they sell the talmud free to every gentile. And they actually do have 2 versions... Maybe you have 2 versions, and in the version you don't expose you support Nazism and the holocaust?
" The actual Kabbalah calls gentiles 'klippot' - husks or shells that are irredeemably evil. "
'klippot' often means person who has no internal - spiritual / moral content, much like all other religions present the non believers.
" Neither one is correct. Both are composed of pure fiction. It's just that because the Jews' numbers are so small the rabbis must enlist Gentiles in their scheme in order to bring about the desired changes in the world. The naivete is yours alone. "
I am a jew and I never heard about racism encouraged by jewish scripts. You can call this neivete, I say that what I know about judaism is the real thing, that makes you naive.
" But sheikhs can. Just as there are two Kabbalahs for Jews and goyim, so are there two laws. And YOU are the one to constantly complain about double standards?! "
That particular Sheikh incited to join the Palestinian struggle. If Israel arrested all those who think that way, it would arrest every member of his group, as well as every participant in his rallies, just to be sure.
" Hmm...Isn't that convenient? If an American politician so much as hints at a racist attitude against anyone but Arabs and Muslims these days, he is run out of office on a rail. In your country it's just business as usual. "
Again, the specific politician wouldn't run out of office, a the maximum it can be done, is hearing at the ethical committee and rebuke. If it's written in the party's platform, the party won't be allowed to run next time.
by Yosi on Wed Oct 06, 04 3:24am
[+]
'Well, there are numerous conspiracy theories...'
There are even more 'coincidence theories.'
'And yet they sell the Talmud free to every gentile.'
They SELL it for FREE? That makes no sense. No, the Steinsaltz Talmud was $40 per volume when it was still in production. My Soncino set from the 1950s cost about $800. The Talmud is not by any means free.
'And they actually do have 2 versions. Maybe you have 2 versions, and in the version you don't expose your support Nazism and the holocaust?'
You're still not making sense. No neo-Nazi worth his salt would deny the HolocaustTM. Rather, he would HOPE that the original Nazis actually DID kill 6 million Jews.
''Klippot' often means person who has no internal, spiritual/moral content, much like all other religions present the non-believers.'
Most honest Christians do not generally portray non-believers as totally, irredeemably evil. Most non-believers are instead viewed as ripe for proselytism. Besides, without a Jewish mother, a Jewish convert is a source of merciless ridicule, and this is perhaps the most obvious example of Judaic racism. Of course, you, the ATHEIST, Zionist, Sephardi Jew, will dispute this claim. But how you can claim authority, I will never know.
'I am a Jew and I have never heard about racism encouraged by Jewish scripts. You can call this naivete. I say what I know about Judaism is the real thing. That makes you naive.'
Yosi, you are an atheist, secular Jew, which means that you have no extended religious education. Beyond mere observation, you have no more authority from which to speak than do I.
'That particular Sheikh incited to join the Palestinian struggle. If Israel arrested all those who think that way, it would arrest every member of his group, as well as every participant in his rallies, just to be sure.'
It's a double standard, Yosi, and I know how much you normally dislike double standards. So, why do you make an exception for this one?
It is a double standard compounded by virtue of the fact that you will accept a double standard for Palestinians, but resist the same for Israelis. That's some racket!
'Again, the specific politician wouldn't be run out of office. The maximum that can be done is a hearing at the ethical committee and a rebuke.'
A real REBUKE? Wow, that's tough. Yes, it's just so 'democratic' of your government.
'If it's written into a party's platform, that party won't be allowed to run next time.'
Oh, how terrible.
" They SELL it for FREE? That makes no sense. No, the Steinsaltz Talmud was $40 per volume when it was still in production. My Soncino set from the 1950s cost about $800. The Talmud is not by any means free. "
Free means that any gentile with money can purchase judaism's greatest secret.
" You're still not making sense. No neo-Nazi worth his salt would deny the HolocaustTM. Rather, he would HOPE that the original Nazis actually DID kill 6 million Jews. "
Yeah, and you actually hope that the Nazis killed as much as possible, in the non censored version of you.
" Most honest Christians do not generally portray non-believers as totally, irredeemably evil. Most non-believers are instead viewed as ripe for proselytism. Besides, without a Jewish mother, a Jewish convert is a source of merciless ridicule, and this is perhaps the most obvious example of Judaic racism. Of course, you, the ATHEIST, Zionist, Sephardi Jew, will dispute this claim. But how you can claim authority, I will never know. "
I don't see how "have no internal content" means "irredeemably evil". If this is how christianity views non believers, doesn't it mean that the current internal content of the non believer is viewed as inferior to christians' one? I wonder how real racists, like the Nazis treated non Aryan loyal German citinzens, like jews for example. I would settle for merciless ridicule.
" Yosi, you are an atheist, secular Jew, which means that you have no extended religious education. Beyond mere observation, you have no more authority from which to speak than do I. "
I'm insider, I can clearly indicate about what is actually implemented rather than all you can see, which is what was written 1500 years ago. I guess that if Judaism is mainly, as you present it racial self worship religion, I would have get a clue or two about it, throughout my life. Yet, nothing.
" It's a double standard, Yosi, and I know how much you normally dislike double standards. So, why do you make an exception for this one? "
Where is the double standarts, again?
" A real REBUKE? Wow, that's tough. Yes, it's just so 'democratic' of your government. "
It collides with the fact that the voters did elect his party, and thus entered him to the Knesset. Anyway, just saying racist things, is not a crime, he needs to incite to crimes, in order for that to be considered personal crime.
by Yosi on Thu Oct 07, 04 4:34am
[+]
'Free means that any Gentile with money can purchase Judaism's greatest secret.'
Be that as it may, but few are those Gentiles with the patience, resolve, and the attention span to delve into the morass and minefield that is Judaic literature.
'Yeah, and you actually hope that the Nazis killed as much as possible, in the non-censored version of you.'
What?! You are getting the non-censored version! I have nothing to hide.
'I don't see how 'have no internal content' means 'irredeemably evil.''
You said 'have no internal content,' whatever that means. It is the Judaic Tanya which says that Gentiles are irredeemably evil.
'If this is how Christianity views non-believers, doesn't it mean that the current internal content of the non-believer is viewed as inferior to Christians' one?'
No, not at all. The non-believer is simply in a state of strong delusion.
'I wonder how real racists, like the Nazis, treated non-Aryan loyal German citizens, like Jews for example.'
Their loyalty was automatically in doubt, with the exception of ex-soldiers who had been awarded the 1914 Iron Cross.
'I would settle for merciless ridicule.'
Just stop it, Yosi. That was a reference that had nothing to do with Germans or Nazis. The merciless ridicule of Gentile converts to Judaism is an internal matter of Jewish communities.
'I'm an insider. I can clearly indicate as to what is actually implemented rather than what you see, which is what was written 1500 years ago.'
Where have I said that the Talmud is my only source of information? Nowhere.
'I guess that if Judaism is mainly, as you present it, a religion of racial self-worship, I would have gotten a clue or two about it, throughout my life. Yet, nothing.'
Really? You must be obtuse.
Where is the double standard, again?
It is a double standard compounded by virtue of the fact that you will accept a double standard for Palestinians - you will accept their arrest in every case, but deny the legitimacy of arrest for Israelis who act just as badly.
'Anyway, just saying racist things, is not a crime. He needs to incite others to commit crimes, in order to be considered personally, criminally responsible.'
Interesting. In the US, David Duke has said many racist things. It is a foregone conclusion in this country that racist speech begets racist activity. But can David Duke ever be elected to the US House or the Senate? It's not likely. What you have over there is certainly not a democracy by conventional standards.
" What?! You are getting the non-censored version! I have nothing to hide. "
Well, you wouldn't say it to my face.
" You said 'have no internal content,' whatever that means. It is the Judaic Tanya which says that Gentiles are irredeemably evil. "
If it says so, it says so, but if it says that the gentiles are Klippot, it doesn't mean that they're irredeemably evil.
" No, not at all. The non-believer is simply in a state of strong delusion. "
What is delusion for one, is the truth for another. Christians think that they're truth is the best, and should be the only one - like many other religions BTW.
" Their loyalty was automatically in doubt, with the exception of ex-soldiers who had been awarded the 1914 Iron Cross. "
And not loyal civilian in Germany was sent to concentration camp. And eventually the Iron Cross jews were sent to there as well.
" Just stop it, Yosi. That was a reference that had nothing to do with Germans or Nazis. The merciless ridicule of Gentile converts to Judaism is an internal matter of Jewish communities. "
In Nazism early years, Hitler said that the humiliating and discriminating attitude towards Germany's jews, is German internal matter, and thus nobody has the right to intervene.
" Really? You must be obtuse. "
Or you are one of the few who can sense it in judaism.
" It is a double standard compounded by virtue of the fact that you will accept a double standard for Palestinians - you will accept their arrest in every case, but deny the legitimacy of arrest for Israelis who act just as badly. "
That Sheikh was Israeli citinzen, and Israeli law applies to him, unlike the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza. I accept his arrest as well as radical jewish extremists arrest, in case of incitement to crime.
" Interesting. In the US, David Duke has said many racist things. It is a foregone conclusion in this country that racist speech begets racist activity. But can David Duke ever be elected to the US House or the Senate? It's not likely. What you have over there is certainly not a democracy by conventional standards. "
They banned him from running to Senate, or it's not likely that he'll be elected? In that way, the US has the unconventional democracy method and values, while Israel adopted the more common european style democracy.
by Yosi on Sat Oct 09, 04 3:45am
[+]
'Well, you wouldn't say it to my face.'
Yes, I would. I am not afraid of you or anyone.
'If it says so, it says so, but if it says that the Gentiles are Klippot, it doesn't mean that they're irredeemably evil.'
That is what the word means according to Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liady, who wrote the Tanya. He says it in so many words. Your denial is baseless.
'What is delusion for one, is the truth for another. Christians think that they're truth is the best, and should be the only one - like many other religions BTW.'
No. There can only be one truth, while lies are infinitesimal.
'And disloyal civilians in Germany were sent to concentration camp. And eventually the Iron Cross Jews were sent to there as well.'
If they were determined to be disloyal then that is where they belonged, according to German law at the time. Iron Cross recipients were sent exclusively to Theresienstadt.
'In Nazism's early years, Hitler said that the humiliating and discriminating attitude towards Germany's Jews was a German internal matter, and thus nobody had the right to intervene.'
It still has NOTHING to do with Jews who ridicule Gentile converts to Judaism. This is what we call a non sequitur.
'Or you are one of the few who can sense it in Judaism.'
More and more are learning of it every day.
'That Sheikh was an Israeli citizen, and Israeli law applies to him, unlike the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza.'
In Occupied Palestine, Israeli law of another kind is meted out.
'I accept his arrest as well as radical Jewish extremists arrest, in case of incitement to crime.'
Would you go so far as to protest for the arrest of Israeli Jews who incite crimes? I doubt it.
'They banned him from running to the Senate, or it's not likely that he'll be elected?'
Even though it's not likely that he would be elected, Duke was not formally banned but blackballed.
'In that way, the US has the unconventional democracy method and values, while Israel adopted the more common European style democracy.'
Perhaps you are right. Personally, I think it is a joke that Americans boast of freedom of choice while perennially laboring under a suffocating two-party system.
Move along . . .
come on . . . move along . . .
There s nothing for you to see here . . .
(except two crackpots discussing ad nauseum)
With a stupid name like Freedom_Fries do you really expect to make an impact in this f*****-up world?
that's pretty fucking sick. and what's sicker if god choosing them.
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