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COMMENTS:
I am writing a paper on this same subject for school. Its pure insanity on the border...
No, because I will no longer be able to sneak across the border for cheap crack and hookers
by ABC on Tue Sep 28, 04 8:58pm
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We love you, too. Pass das Bier!
Security-wise you have the wrong border. Terrorists are more likely to cross in from Canada, where there are fewer agents protecting a much larger border and during the winter all you need to cross the border unannounced is a pair of cross-country skies.
Nein!
Answere mein fragen! Fadumpt! Es ist rechtige!
cdubatrc, it doesn't matter which border they got in from, they EVENTUALLY got into OURS illegally. If the government had been funding our border patrol, which they AIN'T, this wouldn't be a problem.
Yea
Yea, I know...Ain't ain't a werd!
it ain't?
Naw, it ain'T!
The Californian Economy would collapse without illegal workers.
You dont think the likes of Danny Mack and his ilk will do those jobs, do you?
Not when he can get a better paying job. I just hope he remembers to ask his customers if they will have fries with their meal.
Those jobs you speak of HAVE TO pay more without immigrants to fill the positions. I'd mow a lawn if it paid good enough. Shit, who wouldn't? Without illegals, companies would be FORCED to raise wages. They'd lose millions of dollars but that's their fault for getting rich illegaly!
I am in total agreement, companies should be sanctioned for hiring cheap illegal labour.
The illegal workers keep down wages, by undercutting the pay of legal workers.
Many a company has threatened to sack the workforce unless they take pay cuts, knowing they can replace them with cheap labour from across the border, and they dont have to worry about such inconveniences such as health and safety.
Until these businesses are clamped down on and the bosses heavily fined, the practice will continue.
Yeah, the border is way too open right now. We need to shut it down and only let in legal immigrants.
Sealing off our borders was the first thing we should have done after 9/11. If we really wanted to make the homeland secure then that is the most important urgent thing to be done, aside from preparing disaster reponse plans and securing the areas that might be particularly vulnerable or appealing to attack, (as well as revamping and improving our intelligence systems).
I know it would be tremendously expensive, and if we weren't so much in debt (oops!), maybe we could afford to do it.
The population of migrant hispanic workers in this state (CA) is enormous. And I'd say that at least 3 out of 4 have at least one baby or child. The notion that we are going to be able to round up and deport them all is absurd. Nor do I think it would be wise, because if they all were shot tommorrow, California's economy would tumble like a house of cards. So I'm FOR granting *current illegal immigrants citizenship - this way, at least they are taxed, and can be screened for security purposes. But that's not going to be a good idea if more of them can just run, swim, float, glide, or ride on into the States.
...and as for the work, it's not just companies that provide these people with jobs, it's ordinary people from the middle-class on up.
There is a street near where I live where on every single day, there are about 100-150 guys standing alongside the road at a time, waiting for someone to pick them up for a day's work. And it's not as if I disrespect their resolve to make a better life for themselves; it's just unwise to allow them to function without being them being documented like everyone else.
Steelhammer's right about California's economy, which by the way greatly influences the national economy. I'm not saying that illegals shouldn't be deported, but I've yet to hear anybody come up with a system that won't skyrocket produce prices. Also, the unemployment rate is only 5.5%. 4.0% is considered normal in a good economy because some people will always be between jobs, which means I seriously doubt there are enough legal people to pick the fruits that my state depends on. Also consider the fact that CA minimum wage is 6.75 and the illegals get nowhere near that, the workers on my grandfather's citrus ranch get a couple of bucks for every meter squared box they fill with oranges. So you have to realize the impacts this will have. Produce will either skyrocket in prices, because farmers and companies are not going to absorb the costs, or all the farms are going to go out of business as cheaper imports break them. I also personally doubt you will see many Americans lining up to pick fruit for a living even if its for $10 an hour.
Good points everyone but you failed to mention anything about the crimes some of them are commiting and not getting caught for due to their fake social and ID cards. What about the two terrorists that crossed the Mexican border and ended up on one of the 2 planes that flew into the WTC?
Not saying it didn't (or did) happen but I've never heard of this Dingleberry, can you post a source or at least the names of the 2 terrorists that entered through Mexico?
Pescador, I read it in the latest issue of Time magazine. Their names are in it as well. This is NOT a fabrication, believe me. Next time you're in a convenient store, pick one up and read the cover story entiled "border control."
C O V E R
Sep. 20, 2004
Who Left the Door Open?
Despite all the talk of homeland security, sneaking into the U.S. is scandalously easyand on the rise. Millions of illegal aliens will pour across the U.S.-Mexican border this year, many from countries hostile to America. TIME looks at the damage, the dangers and the reasons the U.S. fails to protect itself
By DONALD L. BARLETT ANDJAMES B. STEELE
The next time you pass through an airport and have to produce a photo ID to establish who you are and then must remove your shoes, take off your belt, empty your pockets, prove your laptop is not an explosive device and send your briefcase or purse through a machine to determine whether it holds weapons, think about this: In a single day, more than 4,000 illegal aliens will walk across the busiest unlawful gateway into the U.S., the 375-mile border between Arizona and Mexico. No searches for weapons. No shoe removal. No photo-ID checks. Before long, many will obtain phony identification...
To continue reading the complete article, subscribe below and get free instant access. Get 12 issues of TIME for only $4.95
Dingleberry, don't drink too much, bad for the liver.
I agree with what cdubatrc has said. Security wise, the Canadian border is more of a threat than the border with Mexico. Canada has a large Moslem population (before you get started, I already know not all Moslems are terrorists, ok?). I have even read where someone in Canada's law enforcement has described Canada as a "Club Med" for terrorists. Canada has a very liberal immigration policy. They will let almost anyone enter their country. It's easy to do a search, just take a minute and type "terrorist Canada". While you are at it, search "Ahmed Ressam millennium", see what you find.
So some of you want to get all the illegals out? Since they buy clothes, food, tires, gasoline, electronics, etc; some businesses will suffer. Some might even have to close. When businesses close, jobs are lost and the unemployment line gets longer. Not to mention the loss of tax revenue. Guess Dingleberry was too drunk and forgot to tell you when employers HAVE TO pay more without immigrants here to fill positions we will all HAVE TO pay more for those products. Do you really want to pay $30 for one cotton T shirt or $25 for a gallon of orange juice? Really? Like it or not, we all benefit from illegal labor.
Something to think about.
I just spent this spring in the mountains of Mexico near Tamazunchale. If I was as poor as they are, I too would probably cross the river for the "otro lado". You know, even though they only had dirt floors and you could see the outside from the inside of their, um, shack.... they were very nice to me and seemed happy. Many made it a point to tell me how sorry they were about what happened on 9/11, I thought that was nice of them to say that.
I think it's funny how people get so outraged about illegals breaking OUR laws. I guess you haven't seen your children breaking THEIR laws during Spring Break when they party in Mexico. I have and it isn't pretty.
I say let the illegals get a special driver's license so they at least have the OPPORTUNITY to drive legally. Give them a renewable 6 or 9 month work permit and make it affordable for them. It would benefit us too, we would know who is here and where they live.
To danny_mack from Washington State - you say "Its pure insanity on the border... " Really? Which border? We are fine on the Mexican border, we don't worry much about a poor "ranchero" trying to better himself. Maybe you meant insanity on your border with Canada? After all it was on your border, in your state that U.S. Customs agents caught terrorist Ahmed Ressam trying to smuggle bomb materials into the USA.
Done deal Dingleberry, I'll try to get one today and thanks to you and larrynelmira for the info.
Well I did a quick search and only found this:
"Did any of the September 11 terrorists sneak into the United States from Canada or Mexico?
No. The INS has concluded that all 19 of the hijackers entered the United States on legal visas, although three had visas that had expired. For years, experts have discussed an entry-exit system that would track foreigners and identify those who overstay their visas. Congress has mandated such a system, but it is years away from being implemented. At present, the INS does not have much staff to devote to removing even those known to have overstayed their visas."
Guess I'll have to get that issue of TIME.
I'll stand by my word by telling you that everything I have posted is as true as Time magazine told it. The artical that Larry posted earlier was exactly the one I was refering to.
Pescador, let me get one thing straight before we go on. I have NO problem with Mexicans at all in America who are trying to make an honest living just like me. It's the ones who do it illegaly that get me. You say Mexicans are nice and showing their regrets for 9/11, but what's your point?
I'm not saying these people are a bunch of pinata beating assholes, I'm just wondering why the hell these people can't cross America's borders legally. Yea, legaly. Sort of how I would cross their borders.
You're also putting words in my mouth by saying I want Mexicans out of the country. Not true. If they made it, more power to them.
You also raised some good points about the rising costs of produce and orange juice if Mexicans were to leave. Very good point but again, I never said I wanted Mexicans to leave. I do want to ask you a question though. I've been alive for about 24 years now and the price of an apple has been about the same in all my years. What I mean is, illegal immigrants crossing America's borders wasn't a huge problem 15 or 20 years ago though prices aren't and weren't much different with or without illegals.
Will there be a difference in prices and economy if Mexicans leave the US? Umm, yes but who said they wanted them to leave? Not me. O and there is a good chance that the price of goods may go up but if you think about it, it should have been like that in the first place. The people hiring these immigrants should be put out of buisness for breaking the law.
Get the magazine and tell me what you think. Your argument matters to me.
The US only lets 675,000 immigrants from all around the world per year. This is not nearly enough to fulfill all the low jobs that are open here. Remember, these millions of people are coming here because there are jobs here. Most of them are working, not sitting around doing nothing.
Lastly, let me say I would be for some type of registered alien policy that would allow enough to come in and work where they need to work but you can't just round everybody up and kick them out while sealing the border and expect to not to reap the consequences.
think of it this way.
If the illegals don't come to united states, all the underpaying demeaning jobs will go unfilled. Sooner or later those jobs would have to be filled by you and me. So unless you want to work digging sewer ditches in the hot burning sun, or work bent over picking strawberries for 12 hours a day, I say import as much workers as possible.
Remember, we are all illegal aliens to the Native Americans.
by LCD on Thu Sep 30, 04 4:24am
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Thanks Dingleberry, really, I trust your word but still plan on finding that article.
One reason for the 9/11 comment is because I really did think it was nice of them to remember. Plus, it seems like 99% of the time the Mexican border is mentioned, so are terrorists. They are not one and the same. Rarely is Canada even mentioned. However, I did read yesterday that we are now looking for a terrorist cell in Matamoros, Mexico. I am sure the Mexican Federales would love to catch any terrorists they find.
I can tell you some reasons why they cross illegally. The problem, as usual, is money. Problems that the USA and Mexico are responsible for. Mexico has laws where you can't leave unless you can show you own property and have a certain amount of money in the bank. Reason being is they want to be sure you have ties in Mexico so that you will come back. Then, on the US side, Immigration requires money for filing papers that are best handled by an attorney, so that's even more money. Money they simply don't have. Most would like nothing better than to enter legally, it is like a dream for them. Problem is it is just too expensive. To enter illegally costs somewhere around $2,000+ for a "coyote" (coyote - a person that helps Mexicans enter illegally) so you can imagine how much more it costs to enter legally. That's a lot of money for them to pay. Then, once inside the US, it's a big decision to return to their families in Mexico because it will be another $2,000+ if they ever want to re-enter the US. These are just some of the problems most of us don't even think of. They sometimes do use someone else's social security card so they can work and yes, taxes are taken out of their paycheck. Many also want to come here just to shop and go back home but can't legally without "papers". Why shop here? Electronics are actually CHEAPER in the US.
Dingleberry, I have re-read what I wrote and I don't see where I said you want the illegals out. I did say "So some of you want to get all the illegals out?" but didn't mean you specifically, sorry for any misunderstanding, ok?.
By the way, I was watching TV in Mexico and they had a news story entitled "The Chinese Invasion" where China was flooding THEIR market with cheap knock offs of Mexican products. I thought that was funny and it sure had a familiar "ring" to it.
As far as the price of apples, illegals were probably picking them 24 years ago just like they are today. Let's be honest though, there are a lot of factors that set prices for the products we buy. Climate, fuel prices, supply and demand are a few that come to mind. I am just saying if companies have to pay higher wages, prices will more than likely increase. I always hear the negative things about the illegal work force but rarely anything positive. I am just trying to get people to think about the whole picture, not just what the politicians and radio commentators want us to hear.
Cheap labor does answer some questions though, "Why don't they just close the border?" "Why don't they do something?". Can you imagine this - "If I am elected, I promise to work hard to open the Mexican border so US companies can have all the cheap labor they want". Um, that's not going to work. So, they say one thing to get votes and then while in office, look the other way. The downside is it gets us angry at the Mexicans because we aren't told the whole story. It's our politicians responsibility to reform the laws. It's their fault. But, once again, the illegals get the short end of the stick (not by you Dingleberry, I mean US public opinion). It's just not fair. You did say "Bush, Kerry and YOUR government doesn't give a shit because they're already rich!" Well that's pretty close to the truth. However, Bush and Fox were working on border reform, it looked promising, but 9/11 happened and that was the end of it.
I do agree with you Dingleberry, the companies that hire illegals should be fined. It's just not right. I was happy when Wal-Mart got caught a few months ago. Funny thought though, if companies like Wal-Mart don't respect our laws, how can any of us expect the illegals to?
Funny thought though, if companies like Wal-Mart don't respect our laws, how can any of us expect the illegals to?
by Pescador
Excellent point. I guess the idea of the 'American dream' affects more than just Americans.
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