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COMMENTS:
Europeans are well aware of our history, and we try to learn from it. With the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, many countries began to fight amonst themselves and tragedies in the former Yugoslavia became apparent.
British history is replete with violence and at one time the British Empire covered a quarter ofthe globe, the largest empire in history.
Like all empires however, it was doomed to fall, due to corruption, over expansion and just the inability to hold down indigenous cultures.
I would challenge you to produce one European person who is unaware of its bloody history and it toll on the world.
Because we know it, we see the same parallels in other nations around the world.
So it is not 'hypocrisy' but words of advice, to beware going down the road we went down, in the end the bad far outweighs any good that can be done.
Are you talking to European people, or they're governments because last time I checked, what they thought hardly mattered when it comes to war.
Their damnit.
Steelhamster: thanks. I appreciate your opinion, and it is very valid. However, you seem to be unique, because most Europeans I know are hypocrits. And, my entire family lives in Europe and I am a first generation American, born here. You're right of course, but listent to your fellow Euros and you may see my point. The road to be wary of is pride and boastfulness, which is what many Europeans seem to be guilty of as well.
Again, I would ask you to name anyone on this site, that has that stance, and I shall join you in your condemnation.
Outside of this site, you will find people of varying degrees of ignorance, both pro and anti USA and pro and anti Europe.
I am happy to debate anyone on facts, but all too readily on this site and elsewhere, you will get nothing but partisan views.
I made a poll recently, and all those people who shouted very loudly about the presence of of WMDs and now it has been proven conclusively that none are present, many are strangely silent.
If I am wrong in a point, I am happy to my hands up and admit a mistake, sadly, many are not so inclined.
Steelhamster: In turn, I challenge you to read through this site and visit the posts to read the comments. If you do this, you will clearly see what I am talking about in terms of the hypocritical claims and attitude of many Europeans. I've read through countless posts, so have dome my homework as it relates to what I read here. As for the rest, it comes from reading posts on the Guardian, on CNN and just in general, my experience.
Perhaps they are speaking with the Wisdom of having learned from experience?
I am well aware of those ballots that are anti-US and anti-Europe and those are usually posted by one of two people.
The politcally and historically uninformed.
Those who scrape their knuckles on the ground when they walk.
When you are a regular on the site, you become able to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
I trust your view on Europeans and hypocrisy has been tempered a little after speaking with me. :-)
Yes, Steelhamster, it has to a certain degree. Who are the two in particular you write of? I understand if you can't name names, but am just a little curious.
You will no doubt come across the people in question as you look through the ballots.
I wont name them, as it just gives them succour.
Thanks Steel! I actually just placed my last post...albeit a rambeling one, it is still the last one for me on this site. I always come with the hope that the site will offer a real good debate, but am always disappointed to see that it is usually not the case. I got caught up in the BS on this site, but the truth be told, life's just way to short to get into it all the time. Take care and thanks!
America was fine until the Europeans invaded and committed genocide on the native population. It managed to break free from Europe for a little while but then our banks got it back again.
America is Europe.
I suppose to Americans Europe does seem to have a revisionist mentality. To us most Americans are ignorant of the way the world actually works. Americans seem to live in a world where the global elite are quite happy letting things go without their input. If the television doesn't mention it, it doesn't exist.
you plant a devate about how long the eu will last and then talk about us being arrogant! you say i was being arrogant in my posts you even accused eurotopia of arrogance. Many people will say yes I`m arrogant! but eurotopia?!? you would be happy if we were the ones steelhamster was refering to, and maybe I am, but that again shows your own pompous arrogance! i wonder if you get on with your family in europe because it doesnt sound like it! perhaps its you thats bitter because they just simply dont like you!
*debate
I have no kind words for nationalism- WW1 and WW2 were a result of nationalism, as was the Kosovo crisis. The affects of European colonisation are still present today and must be addressed- Europe left the third world in a mess and with national borders that don't necessarily make sense (leading to internal conflict and external conflicts). I would also like to state that I do not approve of present day oppression of the third world by BOTH the USA and Europe and the rest of the Global North. We continue to oppress and it must stop! I criticise nationalism and the US happens to be the most nationalistic country at the moment. I have no kind words for China either.
People always seem to wonder: Why is there so much conflict in Africa? The answer is Europe, I am in no denial. Europe left Africa with national borders that don't make sense- the borders don't follow any clear ethnic/lingual/cultural lines. Which is why there are so many civil wars, separatists, and wars between nations. The same for Asia aswell. You have separatists in the Phillipines, Thailand, India, Indonesia, etc. The middle-east as well has a lot of conflicts that can be stemmed back to Europes lust for power. What other Europe bashing can I do... oh yeah- Europe WITH USA and WITH Japan continues to oppress the third world by exploiting their natural resources, manipulating their slave labour, and the corporations continue to stop them from setting up their own sucessful businesses. What else? ... umm yes also Europe with the rest of the Global North is damaging the environment much more than the other countries yet they (the poor peoples) are the ones who are suffering as a result of it (eg, the sinking islands of the Pacific). British, French and Russian (as well as American) nuclear testing has also offered the world a lot of problems. European (as well as American) support for cruel regimes. and... Europe (and America and Japan) consume and waste so much food, water and resources while the rest of the world is starving. The poorer nations make up 85% of the world's population yet they control merely 15% of the world's wealth. *Thank you Europe, USA and Japan!* More euro-bashing... oh yeah the G8? what is that anyway?! The 'aristocrat' nations who strut around telling everyone else what to do?! 5 of the 8 are European.
patch22us: "Fact is folks, we're agressive, your agressive , Japan was agressive."
Bullseye! The world's problems are a combination of American, European, and Japanese imperialism. These three have subjugated the world for a very long time now and continue to do so- and it must stop! Why was/is there imperialism anyway? Nationalism.
Oh and Canada, Australia and New Zealand (don't think you can sneak past me!)you's are also in the group of subjugators/oppressors.
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