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COMMENTS:
My feeling is that this constant batteling between Democrats and Republicans has got to stop. The party bosses on each side helped to create this current divisive environment and the people need to move passed it. Just because you are a "Republican" does not make you any better or anymore loyal than a "Democrat." A good American is one who thinks for him or herself and is one who votes based on the facts and based on their conscience, not their party. Nationalism is good to a degree, but we must make sure that we uphold those democratic principles that we expound to the world. To label Bush a good President just because he is Republican is wrong, just as it would be wrong to claim that Kerry is a traitor, just because he is a Democrate. Some of our most popular Presidents were Democrats, including FDR and JFK. If for one will think for myself and may register as an Independet, because that seems to be the best way to avoid this BS rhetoric both parties are throwing at us.
Too many have fallen into the divisive *You're either with us or against us* assertion.
They get so focused on their points and 'winning' that they eschew little things like listening, negotiating, and continuing to gather facts.
It's contemptible to use such an argument, IMO.
Excellent point Cathexis; Demonstrated perfectly by the Democratic Party's constant attacks and lawsuits against Nader. I guess he's not "with us"?
Too be fair many on the left are traitors and unamerican, and the normal liberals don't seem to be doing anything to distance themselves from those people.
They think they're the only patriotic ones because they're narrow minded and brainwashed by all the conservative media.
If all the media is conservative than what is Dan Rather? "King Facist". Or if the media is sooo con then what about Mark Halpern of ABC. Or that 80-90% of journalists consistently self-identify as "progressive, Democrats, and/or liberals"? You say that conservatives are narrow minded as if that makes it true. Do you know any conservative on a personal level or are you just spoon fed conservative hatred from the conservative media Liberal_Moron.
The point of all this though is that all the in-fighting is HURTING our country. The people need to take a breath and ratchet down the rhetoric. If it was anyone's intention to divide us, they have succeeded. The fight between Republicans and Democrats has to stop and only by the people telling them "enough is enough" will it stop. Why do we have to be such a winner take all society...what's wrong with compromise and being in the middle and not on one extreme?
Today's democrats are socialists which would be fine if our forefathers had socialism in mind but...
Oh yeah,I concede that republicrats do exist more and more everyday.
Cathexis,
As I read this:
They get so focused on their points and 'winning' that they eschew little things like listening, negotiating, and continuing to gather facts.
your name was hidden. I got to the eschew part and thought... this has to be Cathexis. LOL
M'hm... It's would be interesting to think of how it would work if they're weren't actual 'political parties' so instead of automatically being biased against some candidate or another, then at least some people would be more inclined to educate themselves on their stands on certain issues and whatnot. Although owing to the fact that it seems people always have to be competitive, the parties probably would have formed subconsciously anyways unfortunately.
The trend has been that only Republicans support the troops and are flag-waving patriots. Have you heard the statement "United We Stand?" That couldn't be further from the truth of the present state of the union. It has been contorted to actually stand for "everything will fall into galactic order when we're all white Christian Republicans who support Bush." ... and I'm white, have Christian leanings, and am far from giving any kind of support to Bush, whether vocal, monetary, or moral.
Parties have a different way of looking at things. What is perceived as strong by one party is seen as weak and un-American by another. Remember the McCarthy witchhunts? That was headed by the House Un-American Activities Committee. What is more un-American than what they did, under guise of patriotism?
"Too be fair many on the left are traitors and unamerican" -- herzog
herzog: How?
Your phrasing in this ballot is just as typical. To hear you talk, all republicans feel this way... to borrow some of your own wording there. I think many extremists on either side have rather... extreme views.
Democrats and Republicans bickering is an example of how well the concept of divide and rule works.
Instead of a range of parties and candidates that achieve a consensus you have a simplified dichotomy. Maintaining this artificial divide in society becomes quite important to the people who possess 90 odd% of the planet's money because being divided keeps you weak.
That is why people like her-blog crawl out from under their rocks and start posting utter lies like:
Too be fair many on the left are traitors and unamerican, and the normal liberals don't seem to be doing anything to distance themselves from those people.
by herzog on Oct 18, 2004
Magdalensadollar: It is both sides. However, the poll is worded appropriately based on what I hear being said and what I read being written, particularly on this site. Both sides to any extrmeme tend to go too far. This question is seeking input on whether Republicans do in fact portray themselves as more patriotic than Democrats and whether or not they act as if they are the only ones loyal to the country. So quite the contrary, my wording is not the "typical" as you belive. A ballot is afterall, usually seeking input and opinion on a given topic. Another ballot may ask: "Are Democrats wrong to assume that all Republicans are elitist war hawks?" Sadly, your comment that it is "typical" fully supports my view that no one will give an inch: everyone is moving rapidly toward a deteriorated political environement in which both sides point fingers and refuse to concede anything. If you felt my ballot was "typical" in its wordding, you should have given input on the merits of this ballot only, and then created your own for the "other side." And just so you know, I would probably consider myself a Republican on many issues, but would be a Democrat on many others. I for one do not believe that this nation can continue to grow if we do not find a common middle ground in which both sides asknowledge strengths and weaknesses. As for this ballot, it is my view that far too many Republicans consider themselves to be the pure and only definiton of "patriotic," and that is just not the case. Thanks!
patch:
You've contradicted yourself several times in that last comment.
You said:
A ballot is afterall, usually seeking input and opinion on a given topic.
but then assert that I
should have given input on the merits of this ballot only.
I did! That was my opinon on the merit of your ballot. To phrase a question, "Why do Republicans think they are the only loyal and patriotic Americans?" is an attack. It will only conjure defensive arguments and counter-attacks. If you really seek to "find a common middle ground", you would not position the two sides so.
You also said:
my wording is not the "typical" as you belive.
as well as:
the poll is worded appropriately based on what I hear being said and what I read being written, particularly on this site.
How is that not then typical?
You said:
Sadly, your comment that it is "typical" fully supports my view that no one will give an inch
I said: I think many extremists on EITHER SIDE have rather... extreme views.
Where was I pointing the finger? BOTH SIDES! Not only that but it seems you would agree with me when you wrote:
Both sides to any extrmeme tend to go too far.
And just so you know, I don't consider myself a Republican, either! Thanks!
Magdalensadollar, I'm just not going to get into this with you. You stated your opinion and you are entitled to it. Thanks!
On second thought, I will Mags: Do Republicans (usually ultra-conservative ones) think that they are the only patriotic Americans.
The point you may not realize is the the above IS the given topic. In a debate, there is a topic, generally a single one, and then the two sides debate that issue, usually with a pro and con. What I was pointing out in your first comment was you saying "this is typical." Again, let me stress that the over-riding issue would be: political in-fighting and rhetoric and the specific topic, Do Republicans (particularly ultra-conservative one), etc., etc. That was simply my point with your comment. And I in now way contradicting myslef in my response to your comment, and was in fact, quite consistent. The fact is, while you are very much entitled to your opinion and to express them in any comment your write, for this particular one, I was seeking the view point of people from both parites, as it relates to the question. I felt that your tact was one of "well you're just as bad with the way you worded your poll." To be frank, the only way an issue is debated and resolved openly is if you present the very divisive issue(s) that cause or are directly caused by the rift itslef. It isn't feasible to write a ballot question that covers every single element or issue, so my ballot presented one. If you wish to now take the opposing view, I think you should do a ballot. :)
p.s. Magdalensadollar: You'd be awesome on a debate team!!
patch, thank you for the compliment!
You wrote:
On second thought, I will Mags: Do Republicans (usually ultra-conservative ones) think that they are the only patriotic Americans.
The point you may not realize is the the above IS the given topic.
The point YOU may not realize is that you phrased the question: "WHY do Republicans think they are the only loyal and patriotic Americans?"
If I were to make a ballot in retort, as you suggest, I would phrase it "Do Republicans think, etc..." That changes the meaning entirely. To ask WHY they do assumes that they do, and to be fair about it, you would have had to have written SOME Republicans, or even MANY Republicans. I am not trying to pick on you, there are endless amounts of these fallible ballot questions. I just happened upon this one. :)
PS - Quite awesome yourself!
They are insecure people.
Well, I can't exactly tell you how many times I have heard peoply Americans (leftists, I knew they were, they were in my family) saying they would move to Canada if Bush wins the upcoming election. This seems a little unpatriotic to me. Patriotism is pride in your country, not who is holding its office.
It is true however that I am not saying this about all people who aren't republicans, just these ones in particular.
Hahah emilyknotz just confirmed what this ballots about.
Patriotism is more than just love of the people with whom you share a country with.It's also having a respect for that countries forefathers and building on the foundation which was laid which in our case is the constitution.The Constitution is THE root of what the USA is and patriots understand and endorse this as they believe in what it espouses.It is simply my observation that most folks who call themselves democrat are whether they know it or not Socialists for the most part which is fundementally out of alignment with what the USA is/drifting away from.I think democrats do tend to be less patriotic in that sense although I acknowledge some republicans have deviated as well.
Patriots don't lie to the American public.
"Hahah emilyknotz just confirmed what this ballots about."
How is that, exactly?
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