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COMMENTS:
If we can build highways that cover this entire country we can build a wall on the Mexican border.
If you can't close the borders why bother making it illegal? And who will sweep your driveways?
Of course borders can be closed. Even one as long as the US/mexico border. The reason it hasn't been done is that there is no interest, in either the republican or democratic party, of doing so.
So they play games, pretend to secure the border and make an act of controlling immigration, all the while letting millions slip through and doing nothing about the ones who are already here.
Utilize the national guard units in those border states, increase funding to the border patrol, allow the police to track down and apprehend illegals once they get here (they can't in Texas, don't know what the rules are in other states), deny illegals all services here, severely punish employers who hire illegals, and begin cutting into mexicos foreign aid until they do something about it.
We can close the borders with the same success that we prevent illegal drugs from entering the U.S. Allowing police to track down and arrest illegals and punishing employers that hire illegals creates violation of civil liberties issues. The police just can't go around questioning employers and Hispanic people. We have the Constitution to follow. As for the services, I think the great majority of illegals don't come here for the services, but to make $$$$$$$$$.
'Allowing police to track down and arrest illegals and punishing employers that hire illegals creates violation of civil liberties issues'
No it doesn't. It means the cops are doing their jobs, to round up criminals. It is illegal to enter this country without going through the proper channels (a criminal act), it is illegal to hire people who don't have the proper ID (another criminal act). Saying that arresting either of these groups is a violation of civil liberties is the same as saying rounding up car theifs is a violation of civil liberties.
'The police just can't go around questioning employers and Hispanic people.'
They can demand to see greencards or social security cards to ensure employers have hired legals. In a rational society cops who do this would be said to be 'doing their jobs'.
'We have the Constitution to follow.'
Yep, and the constitution clearly states that immigration is controlled by the federal government.
As for coming here for services, no most probably don't, but that doesn't mean they should get a free ride while they're here.
The Fourth Amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure. Police cannot just go around demanding to see greencards and social security cards without probable cause. This is America and the Constitution protects our privacy. And let's say you are a police officer, and it is your first day on the job. How would you go about tracking down illegals? Remember if a Hispanic person is minding their business you can't just go and ask to see if they have a social security card or not. It is against the law, you need probable cause.
Actually you could just go to employers and demand to see the SS or green cards of all their workers. This IS the law, it just isn't enforced.
This is the same thing. Again this brings up Fourth Amendment issues. Individuals AND
businesses are protected from unreasonable search and seizure. The police cannot randomly search for peoples social security cards at their job without probable cause or a search warrant. Also there are many businesses that save money by paying illegals next to nothing. Illegals also use the identities of legal U.S. residents, some of whom have passed away. The solution, if it exists, is not that simple.
Let me ask you something: is auditing a businesses expenses to make sure they're paying taxes an invasion of privacy? Is demanding that they give inspections to OSHA and Union officials a violation of privacy? No? Because these things are done all the time, why you ask? TO make sure that businesses are complying with the laws set out for them. There is no such thing as privacy in the business world. If the government thinks you're cheating they can have a look any time they choose.
Something tells me that if a company were suspected of dumping arsenic into the groundwater you wouldn't be so concerned with their 'right to privacy'.
And that 'no illegal search and siezures' amendment applies to people, not businesses.
That is right. If the government thinks you are cheating taxes they have probable cause to check. If a company is suspected of dumping arsenic into the ground water, that is probable cause for a criminal investigation. The police cannot randomly search a a business for drugs, guns, or illegal aliens if they have no probable cause. We have protection from unreasonable search and seizure.If you are Hispanic, a police officer cannot randomly ask to see your social security card. If a company has 200 employees and 10 of them are Hispanic, it would be discrimination to only single out the Hispanics for social security inspections. Just as it would be for a company to give drug tests to Black males only. Just as it would be discrimination for a company to only promote males and overlook more qualified woman. I don't make the laws, I am just pointing out that the solution,if it exists, is not that simple.
It's not singling them out, it's following the letter of the law. The government has a right to make sure all your paperwork is in order, regardless of whether they have a reason to suspect you're cheating or not. It's not unreasonable search or seizure, it's simply what they do all the time.
The only reason they don't do more screenings for illegal immigrants is that they don't want to offend their interest groups, not because it would be illegal.
Demanding a company show it's records is in no way illegal.
The only reason the government does not want to do screening for illegal immigrants is that they don't want to offend? Is that why the govt does audits? Because they are concerned with offending people? Does that mean the govt does not want to hurt anyones feelings? Or is it a FACT that the police CANNOT randomly check a business or individual for guns, drugs or valid social security cards? I challenge you to find a situation or court case where the police can randomly search a business or individual,
WITHOUT probable cause, for drugs, guns, or valid social security cards. Good luck! I won't hold my breath.
One case where the courts have ruled no search warrant is needed to search a person is at the airport. The police cannot randomly ask to see a Hispanic person's social security card without probable cause. Read the Fourth Amendment.
No pepsi, there are no advocacy groups for tax evaders. They don't have organizations represented millions of voters at their beck and call. Try getting elected in any of the border states without the support of LULAC.
And you seem to be oppsessed with the idea that they have to run down brown looking people and demand to see their papers, nazi germany style. They don't. All the authorities have to do is to actually perform their jobs. Go to employers and demand to see the SS or green cards on all their employees, as the law requires. When they arrest a person ask for his idea, if he happens to be an illegal them ship him off. There are no violations of any amendments here. Any more than it'd be a violation of rights to demand to see your insurance when they pull you over for speeding.
Do I want a solution to the illegals in this country? Yes I do. But I did not make the laws. I never said police cannot check a persons I.D. What a police officer needs is probable cause (go look it up!). Police CANNOT go around randomly asking to see social security cards. How do I know this? I know more than one person in law enforcement. I think they would know. It seems you are under the impression that the police should be given free reign and power to randomly seize and search people for social security cards. Read the Fourth Amendment. You are missing the key point. Can police officers search and seize people? Yes they can, but they need probable cause! And if you are a gung ho illegal alien busting cop, you CANNOT search and seize someone if they are just walking down the street or working at McDonalds. You NEED probable cause.
There are a number of actual cases on the subject. Here is one, Almeida-Sanchez v. United States. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
No pepsi, you are the one still missing the point. I never said they should go up to individuals and demand to see their cards, as you persist in claiming.
I said they should go up to companies and demand to see their employment records. Law enforcement agencies do this all the time, just not enough and they rarely follow up on it. Police raids on companies hiring illegals happen all the time, just not enough to make a dent in the problem. We could do it more but that would offend the minorities rights idiots.
"...allow the police to track down and apprehend illegals once they get here" by herzog on Dec 10, 2004. How quickly you forget. I guarantee you that any company that gets raided for this has had probable cause or a search warrant. If a company is hiring illegals, Do you think the company would alert the government that it is breaking the law? Do you think the illegals would tell the government of their illegal status? Of course not! Without probable cause or a search warrant the police cannot do anything. I have presented an actual case on the subject and you have presented nothing but what you think you know.
Illegals get fake I.D.'s and documents. Illegals even get social security and welfare benefits. The govt can raid all the businesses they want. There will always be businesses that will use the cheap labor and pay under the table. Illegals put billions into our economy. We will stop illegals with the same success as the war on drugs. How successful are we at stopping people from using prostitutes or selling drugs? Illegals provide cheap labor and that makes people $$$$$$$$$$ and that will never change.
'"...allow the police to track down and apprehend illegals once they get here" by herzog on Dec 10, 2004. How quickly you forget'
Not at all, police go to these companies, demand to see the IDs for their workers, when they prove to be illegals then you go get them. Right now that isn't allowed.
Also if you happen to stop someone for another crime, it turns out he's an illegal then deport him. Another practice that isn't allowed so as not to offend anyone.
You don't need probably cause to inspect a business and make sure it's doing everything legally. Just look at the IRS, they audit whoever they want for whatever they want. Why? Because they are simply checking to see if businesses are complying with the laws set out for them. This is no different.
'Illegals get fake I.D.'s and documents. Illegals even get social security and welfare benefits'
Some do, but most don't bother. Have you ever been to Texas? Didn't think so. I could find you about 20 illegal immigrants in 5 minutes without trying. They line up next to the road and harrass cars as they go by looking for work. All of which is illegal, the cops could show up and do something, but they'd rather not.
'There will always be businesses that will use the cheap labor and pay under the table.'
There will always be people who steal cars. I guess we shouldn't do anything about that either. You seem to be advocating defeatism.
' How successful are we at stopping people from using prostitutes or selling drugs?'
More so than we would be if we did as you advocated: nothing.
'Illegals provide cheap labor and that makes people $$$$$$$$$$ and that will never change.'
Yep, as long as people like you are in charge things will never change.
These are good ideas that you have. There are manpower, crime priority, cost, and legal issues as to why these things are not done. A little kid was asked how would he stop drugs in the country. He basically said he would make it illegal to possess,use, and sell drugs. But we know it is not that simple. Should we do something about illegals? Yes we should. "Closing" the borders (if that is even possible) is not as simple as implementing a couple of policies here and there. I am pointing out some issues we face. I do not advocate defeatism. I am just being realistic.
Some business owners save alot of money by hiring illegals. Illegals contribute billions to our economy. The guy that did the landscaping in my backyard could have been illegal. What was I supposed to do? Ask to see his green card? All I know is that I saved alot of money! Agriculture uses illegals. It saves the owners $$$$ and it allows lower prices for the consumer. I even know American citizens that get paid under the table. Why? It saves the business owners money. When we spend the money to deport 20 illegals we could have 100 coming in illegally somewhere in the desert. I am NOT advocating this, it is just the way it is. It is not as simple as implementing a couple of policies here and there. And from a police officers perspective, drunk driving, drugs, gang violence, murder and domestic abuse calls have more priority than some illegal Mexican picking fruit.
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