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COMMENTS:
We've been giving charity for years, far more than the amount we've dedicated to this fund, and it hasn't done a thing to combat terrorism.
I love how you think, herzog, so do you actually think that armed invasion does MORE to curve terrorism?
by LCD on Sat Jan 08, 05 12:14pm
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You're right LCD it doesn't curb terrorism it CURVES terrorism. Unfortunately all the terrorists are CURVING into Iraq.
More than throwing away money and making ourselves look fat and weak, thus confirming everything the terrorists have said about us in the eyes of every muslim in the world? Yes, it does more than that.
"confirming everything the terrorists have said about us in the eyes of every muslim in the world"
One of the dogmas of Al Qaeda doctrine is that Westerners must be fought because they want to control political life in muslim countries by invading and/or supporting "unholy" puppet governments.
It's an argument that sticks, too.
People don't realize that 20.03.2003 is a date celebrated by Al Qaeda's leadership, second only to 09.11.2001.
I have my pointy stick,and I will always defend Alaska against terrorism
yes, herzog, and three years of gunplay in two different countries has done SO MUCH...
Truth: we tried it the other way, retreat when attacked and hand out money. We did this for 8 long years. And did this end terrorism? Well it culminated in the 911 attacks, so you tell me.
Now that we're doing something about the problem al qaeda is on the run, an estimated 2/3s of their members are dead or captured, they've lost two major bases of operations, they've had their money and a large store of weapons and gear confiscated, and they haven't really been able to accomplish anything noteworthy.
Perhaps not involving yourselves in the affairs of others might be the best way to take your nation out of the firing line?
I'm specifically thinking about the unremitting and entirely partisan US support for Israel here, which has done so much to promote hostility towards the US from Arab and Muslim nations.
Herzog, deluded as ever, seems to think that the forces of international terr'ism have finite resources, but I'd be interested to know how many recruits and how much funding Al-Qaeda and similar organisations have gained as a direct result of the US-led occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan...
'Perhaps not involving yourselves in the affairs of others might be the best way to take your nation out of the firing line?'
So we should become isolationist? No, we've tried that, doesn't work.
Actually if you look at the US military in the past few decades we've done more for muslims than any muslim nation has. We kept them from being slaughtered in serbia, we liberated the kuwaitis and kept the saudis from being another conquest of iraq. And now because of us the afghanis and iraqis will have their first real elections.
'I'm specifically thinking about the unremitting and entirely partisan US support for Israel here, which has done so much to promote hostility towards the US from Arab and Muslim nations.'
We give the same amount to egypt that we give to israel, but somehow you never hear about that. The arab world doesn't care about the palestinians, if they did then why has every arab nation refused to take in their refugees? They are simply a useful excuse for islamic extremism. That way they can commit acts of absolute barbarism, like gunning down children or flying planes into crowded buildings, and western liberals will not only ignore this acts but will actually defend them as the real victims in all this. Good system they have set up. The nazis claimed they were being pushed around by the jews also, and that they were merely trying to defend themselves. They'd get along well with the modern islamic regime.
'Herzog, deluded as ever, seems to think that the forces of international terr'ism have finite resources'
If they don't have finite resources that means you believe they have infinite resources. Which would make them more powerful than every nation on earth, and their victory inevitable. No wonder you so favor giving in to their demands and surrendering our sovereignty. Of course all rational people recognize that al qaeda isn't some omnipotent superpower, but simply a small group of dedictated men. And like all organizations they have their weaknesses, cut off their support and they simply cease to exist. Kill all their memebers and they cease to exist. It's not exactly brain surgery here.
'but I'd be interested to know how many recruits and how much funding Al-Qaeda and similar organisations have gained as a direct result of the US-led occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan'
Al qaeda recruits using propaganda victories. Getting their asses handed to them is not a propaganda victory. Their recruitment went up following the US retreat from somalia, and the attack on the USS cole which we never retaliated to. See a pattern? Hitting us and suffering no consequences boosts their enrollment. And the opposite of that is?
Well here we go again!
"Actually if you look at the US military in the past few decades we've done more for muslims than any muslim nation has. We kept them from being slaughtered in serbia, we liberated the kuwaitis and kept the saudis from being another conquest of iraq. And now because of us the afghanis and iraqis will have their first real elections. "
You stopped noone getting slaughtered in serbia at all! All that happened was that nato bombed serbia into submission and who was there first? america? nope they were russian!
You rescued kuwait because you were pissed that saddam had overstepped "YOUR" rules! even tho kuwait oil fields were originally part of iraq!
Because of "US" iraq will hold elections the majority of the people dont want! How is that a real election!
"We give the same amount to egypt that we give to israel, but somehow you never hear about that."
Wrong america gives $3 billion to israel and $2 billion to egypt! The total funding for israel has reached over $3 trillion! What you fail to realise is that this money just goes to buy weapons and keeps the conflict going!
"That way they can commit acts of absolute barbarism, like gunning down children or flying planes into crowded buildings, and western liberals will not only ignore this acts but will actually defend them as the real victims in all this."
Nice examles but it compares to american money being spent by israelis to buy tanks which they use to shell civilian buildings and schools full of children. or is barbarism ok for people you support!
The people you say are defending this action are probably trying to point this out to you but your so blinded by your own sense of rightness that you simply refuse to accept it (definate similarities to bush there)
"The nazis claimed they were being pushed around by the jews also, and that they were merely trying to defend themselves. They'd get along well with the modern islamic regime. "
I dont remember a nazi ever claiming such a thing! It was just another example of ethnic cleansing (genocide as its more commonly known) They would have more similarities with the current bush regime when it comes to islam but hey lets not be childish here!
"If they don't have finite resources that means you believe they have infinite resources. Which would make them more powerful than every nation on earth, and their victory inevitable"
Again a missreading. Compared to america they do have infinite resources but that certainly doesnt make them the most powerful nation on earth. you have finite manpower they do not! Bombs and explosives are easy to make ask any half decent chemist! this isnt a nation your fighting anymore its the whole of islam!
"Of course all rational people recognize that al qaeda isn't some omnipotent superpower, but simply a small group of dedictated men. And like all organizations they have their weaknesses, cut off their support and they simply cease to exist. Kill all their memebers and they cease to exist. It's not exactly brain surgery here"
This is where you lose it herzog resorting to cheap sarcasm to insult peoples intelligence into agreeing with you or looking foolish! Whats al quaeda got to do with iraq? what did it ever have to do with iraq? Al quaeda profit from what your doing you increase theyre numbers by your very actions! and still you miss the real enemy! This war will continue and al quaeda will grow if you attack or retreat because of you policy of interference. The only pattern i see in what you say is your insistence that everything is in black and white and your constant patronising tone of self satisfaction!
"We give the same amount to egypt that we give to israel, but somehow you never hear about that."
Far from you never hearing this, herzog, I've told you time & time again that the only reason the US gives such a lot of foreign aid (i.e. military equipment) to Egypt is that they are the only Arab nation apart from Jordan that has diplomatic relations with Israel. I'm getting fed up of repeating this, you should try harder to pay attention.
'If they don't have finite resources that means you believe they have infinite resources. Which would make them more powerful than every nation on earth, and their victory inevitable.'
This is absolute bullshit, unworthy of a child.
Of course the insurgents do not necessarily have finite resources. It's not a game of sodding poker there is always the possibility that their funds and manpower may be replenished by persons or organisations that are sympathetic to their cause. Only an idiot would suggest that's the same as suggesting or implying that their resources must be infinite.
Again, I've pointed out your readiness to leap to stupid conclusions before. You just won't learn, will you?
'Al qaeda recruits using propaganda victories. Getting their asses handed to them is not a propaganda victory. Their recruitment went up following the US retreat from somalia, and the attack on the USS cole which we never retaliated to. See a pattern? Hitting us and suffering no consequences boosts their enrollment. And the opposite of that is?'
Yada yada yada. Idiotic ranting without any attempt made to substantiate your claims.
'It's not exactly brain surgery here.'
Not that a baby pre-med with limited capacity for handling alternative prognoses would know much about that.
Herzog, you're a washout.
'Far from you never hearing this, herzog, I've told you time & time again that the only reason the US gives such a lot of foreign aid (i.e. military equipment) to Egypt is that they are the only Arab nation apart from Jordan that has diplomatic relations with Israel'
So we should only support those arab nations who have vowed to push israel (our ally) into the sea? That makes a lot of sense. While we're at it we should support north korea and south korea, and china and taiwan. Think logically for a change: you don't actively help the enemies of your friends if you can avoid it.
You claimed that the notion of the terrorists having finite resources was ridiculous, which leaves two options (according to the mathematical definition): infinite or infinitesimal. I doubt it's the second, or they wouldn't even be an issue. Which leaves only infinite. This is YOUR argument, if you want to retract it go ahead, but don't pretend I misquoted you. Your poor mastery of the english language is hardly my fault, I suggest you vent your spleen at some of your teachers, who obviously were sleeping on the job.
Osama himself stated that the US retreat from somalia was a major boost for his campaign. This is not a rant, this is a stated fact. Go ahead and deny it. Deny that major propaganda victories for al qaeda does anything to boost their prestige in the muslim world. Deny that when the west retreats they eagerly advance. While you're at it deny that the sun will rise tomorrow, or that the earth is round.
her-blog's logic triumphs again! The terrorists can't have infinite resources! Nor can they have infinitesimal resources! Oh my God, DingleDUNG! Do you realise what this means!?? The terrorists (and everyone else on the planet) must have finite resources!
How can we argue against such a towering intellect? You're toast, DingleDUNG! Finite resources!! Amazing.
Did you not read a single thing i said herzog or as usual were you just filled with the need to lash out like a child! Your lack of objectivity is astounding never have i ever hears such ignorant hogwash! you`ll say literaly anything, even if you make it up, to make your point(or lack of)! When You resort to cheap insults your true nature becomes obvious to even the most jaded mind! Your need to criticise peoples spelling and grammer shows just how pathetic you really are! I like the way you quote osame bin laden now that is good. well if your gonna quote osama then lets do just that! what was it he said about bush? Oh yes , why when he`d been warned about the trade center was bush out making a visit to a small child in a hospital to earn sympathy votes in the press rather than dealing with the issue? Your just dumb herzog and I for one wont waste time replying to your mindless nonsense anymore! I sugget others follow suit because your an attention seeker and your just simply not worth the effort!
What's this? Jerkz-dogs has been reduced to arguing semantics?
Firstly, herzog, your comment that the US also funded Egypt was an attempt by you to demonstrate your nation's... ahem... "impartiality" with regard to the Arabs in its foreign aid donations. This, unfortunately, is absolute bollocks since your nation only gives "aid" to those Arab nations that suck its metaphorical cock and/or play nicely with Israel. Hence my comment.
So by now saying that "of course your nation only gives foreign aid to its friends", what you're actually saying is that there was no point whatsoever to your initial point about Egypt, it was a failed attempt to portray your nation in a favourable light. Correct? Nice one, Einstein, way to go.
I'm not interested in your "finite/infinite" waste of time. The insurgents have a demonstrable capacity to replenish both their manpower and their equipment, whichever way you choose to acknowledge this fact is entirely your concern.
'Osama himself stated that the US retreat from somalia was a major boost for his campaign.'
Any and all setbacks encountered by the US are likely to bolster support for Al Qaeda and similar groups, and their efforts to embarrass the Great Bully will do nothing except raise their profile amongst their supporters. Such setbacks include, of course, the much-publicised US mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the recent killing of an unarmed wounded man on camera by a jittery US marine, the mounting cost of the Iraq operation and its lack of progress with no end in sight, the daily bodycount of US soldiers, the increasing antipathy of the voting public in countries allied with the US towards the US-led occupation of Iraq, etc., etc.
I hope you're ready for another Vietnam, herzog.
Oh he's ready. Got his lube, box of tissues and wide screen tv all set up.
'What's this? Jerkz-dogs has been reduced to arguing semantics?'
Wouldn't you say the meaning of words has some bearing on any debate? If you want to make their definitions fluid, with no concrete meaning fine, but it will make a logical argument next to impossible. Either abide by the oxford dictionary or don't, but please state your intentions before hand.
1) we fund egypt so we can give money to a muslim regime to counter our aid to israel. This much should be obvious to even you. We picked egypt because they are a lesser evil. What other muslim nation could we have given to? Iraq? Iran? Syria? Perhaps some place in the middle east where they don't behead people, and stone women to death? Well once you take out israel that doesn't leave alot of options. Unless you're advocating that we support islamic fundamentalism? If so you should have made that clear in the begining in which case I could have simply written you off as a nut, and saved us both some time.
2) if you aren't interested in the 'finite/infinite waste of time' then why did you bring it up? Just admit it, that while you believe the terrorists have wide access to resources, they are not infinite. Come on, just admit you were wrong, you'll feel much better.
3) these people aren't out of the middle ages. They don't give a damn about human rights. If they did then just about every muslim nation would be attacked by muslim extremists. They care about strenght and conversely: weakness. If we appear strong they'll retreat, and they won't get new members. If we appear weak, as we did in the 90s, they'll be encouraged that their little jihad may succeed and they'll attack, which is exactly what they did.
How many large scale terrorists attacks have we had since this thing began?
Well lets hope when they do herzog its somewhere near you or preferebly just you!
I highly doubt that college station Texas is high on their list of places to attack. But thanks for the sentiment, right back at you.
get rid of bush oops to late...
by seon on Mon Jan 24, 05 3:33am
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