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COMMENTS:
That's a badass thing to do. A poll officer up here at the university pushed a student down a flight of concrete stairs because he was displaying democratic propaganda too close to the polling site. He didn't even get in trouble.
Proof if proof were needed at the division that now exists in the US.
despite all the liberal childish sneaky efforts, they failed to get Hanoi Kerry into office.
Even now, the liberals can't handle Bush's win still wanting a recount. I'm sure they'll try to slash more tires to try to get one. Keep Dreaming Liberals, keep dreaming.
The scary thing is, that the dream has become a nightmare.
That was wrong.
See, herzog? That was called "sticking to principles over partisanship." It is a good trait to develop ... you should try it sometime.
Cath: if a republican were to resort to such underhanded means to try to influence the election I'd be on here condemning him as well.
But as things go you can only really find good examples of election fraud (the real stuff not the invented conspiracy theories) committed by democrats.
And I see you put 'wrong' as your choice. Does that mean you don't think this is a serious thing, or an attempt to interfere with democracy?
You guys should check out Freerepublic.com
It means I think it was wrong. Slashing tires goes beyond "pranks." As for a concerted effort to impede the vote (foolish and ineffective) ... may well have been. Not very good tactic, though.
Funny ... with all of the reports of voter fraud and misdeeds going on ... I must have missed your denunciations, herzog.
Stupid and wrong. VERY stupid and VERY wrong.
The reports of voter fraud are the same things the democrats complain about every year, mostly long lines and the fact that bush got more votes than their guy. There was never anything substantial, and certainly nothing that was proven.
Not like, oh say paid members of the kerry team going out and slashing tires. That's pretty concrete right there, and easy to prove.
Effective? Doubtful, but since when has a plan had to work for it to be illegal? Unsucessful attempts at murder are still prosecuted, they don't say 'well try harder next time, no run along you little scamp'.
Although given the fact that they are extremely well connected democrats in an extremely democratic region that's probably exactly the punishment they'll get.
Nothing substantial, her-blog? Coming from you that's just so convincing.
herz: See what I mean? When you see an instance of someone possibly hampering the GOP vote, you scream in outrage. If there is an accusation from the other side, you dismiss it as conspiratorial whining.
That is a problem. There were a lot of irregularities going on ... whether enough to sway results, who knows ... but there certainly were problems.
People with integrity look to at least fix future problems.
People with double-standards dismiss any accusations as sour grapes.
BTW, for specifics (for when you inevitably scoff):
In Ohio, Republican Secretary of State and Bush campaign chairman Kenneth Blackwell spearheaded a parade of abuses that have gotten little national press. Blackwell, who has refused to testify under oath, began early. Between 2000 and 2002, his office purged 303,000 voters in key urban areas; even with massive registration drives, fewer people actually ended up eligible in Cleveland than in 2000.
Blackwell also tried to reject new Democratic registrations because they weren't on 80-pound paper stock, then backed off when official forms failed that standard. He went to court to reject provisional ballots cast outside of the correct precinct, while closing down largely Democratic voting stations. On Election Day, Democratic precincts were so short of machines that voters waited in lines up to 10 hours in the winter cold; thousands had no choice but to leave.
The Ohio abuses continue: With no parallel here. Many Democrats were forced to use provisional ballots, even with registration cards in hand. (The 90,000 provisional ballots overwhelmingly came from Democratic neighborhoods.) Trumbull County voters received punch-card ballots with holes already punched for Bush. In Franklin County, a computer error tallied 3,000 extra votes for Bush. In Mahoning County, electronic machines kept registering Bush votes even when voters chose Sen. John Kerry; it took repeated attempts to correct them.
In Warren County, officials declared an Election Day homeland security emergency, barring reporters and others from watching while ballots were left unguarded and unprotected in a warehouse, then hastily moved after people complained. But the FBI said they gave no such warning and Warren County employees were told to prepare for a lockdown the previous Thursday. In one African American Cleveland precinct, the presidential candidate of the ultra-conservative Constitutional Party received 215 votes, only 65 fewer than Kerry; the local city councilman said this could have resulted only from malfunctioning machines.
Some of these examples may have been due to human error, but all favored Bush and none favored Kerry. When minor-party candidates requested a random-sample recount, Blackwell pre-selected precincts in which to conduct it.
Oh, and as we speak, Republicans in Washington state are asserting fraud after one of meost meticulous recounts in history.
So, please, herzog ... spare me your dismissive and hypocritic shrugs at voter fraud allegations.
BTW, Washington state's bipartisan counters and observers looked at every questionable ballot, trying to validate voter intent. Republican Secretary of State Sam Reed has placed public service over partisanship, already suggesting ways to address the problems that did occur.
Now that is a good and honorable Republican.
Too bad there aren't more like him ... especially in Ohio and Florida.
A shortage of ballot machines and long lines (as I mentioned earlier) does not constitute an active conspiracy against the democrats. Republicans, if you can believe it, had to wait in line as well.
Like I said, there was nothing so blatant and malicious as this on the republican side.
And BTW, the washington recount that you're talking about, the republican won the first count, he only lost after a recount and several thousand fresh ballots showed up *after* the due date. Now given the democrats proven inclination to forge ballots, like they did in florida by the thousands, I'd say contesting that election is worthwhile.
Re: A shortage of ballot machines and long lines (as I mentioned earlier) does not constitute an active conspiracy against the democrats.
1. It has been shown that the vast majority affected the Democratic areas.
2. You conveniently ignore all of Blackwell's other little actions.
herzog, people with integrity call out corruption wherever it is; calling it "realpolitik" in expectations it helps your party get their way ... is rationalization.
Re: Like I said, there was nothing so blatant and malicious as this on the republican side.
There was little so foolish and blatant. It was much more orchestrated and organized.
That doesn't make it any better. Just not as stupid.
And any case of fraud should be investigated and prosecuted to the full extent of the law ... no matter which party perpetrates it.
Are you under the impression I am saying Dems are innocent? Wake up, boy.
Here in NC, there is a dispute about Agriculture Commission because over 4,000 ballots got lost from defective voting machines in one county. The margin of difference between the two was about 2,000.
The GOP candidate wants that county to re-vote. The Dem candidate wants a statewide re-vote.
IMO, it is obvious that the GOP candidate has the right answer and the Dem is trying to play a fast one (probably because the county in question is heavily redneck).
See, herzog? It's called integrity ... valuing principle over party. It is more honourable than your realpolitik.
Would you also support a recount in Washington, where the democratic canidate clearly used unethical means to win? The majority of the populace feels it was an illegitimate election, and they broke the rules when they did it.
Crime is bad but I confess I'm not far from vandalizing car windows that have a W sticker on them.
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