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COMMENTS:
The whole idea of lobbying seems dirty to me.
by B_P on Mon Feb 21, 05 10:56am
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Clausewitz said: "war is nothing but the continuation of the political realtions, by other means". Maybe viceversa is also true.
Hard to say but the AARP are known for supporting the democrats yet they don't seem to advertise that fact while trying to recruit new membership, if they take a fall I think it's their own fault really. They keep pushing the idea that Bush's plan will hurt the elderly & anyone that looks at the plan knows it's not even aimed at the elderly, it's intended to give choices of opting out to the younger workers for their future. If they keep trying to mis-lead their members I think they get what they deserve, also you've got to wonder why they are so against it when everyone that looks at it says it's not related to the people in their members age range. I think they are much more partisan then they want to let on.
Why do you guys spend so much money on so much garbage? Seriously. And, just a while ago, New York spent 21 million on some stupid gates! GATES! That money could go for something useful like a hospital wing!
by aya on Mon Feb 21, 05 11:06am
[+]
Okay, I know it's not your fault, I'm just ranting. But they got this amount of money to spend on this garbage, and a Christian organization called the Knights of Colombus spent $80,000 on getting the word out against gay marriages, but yet, no money for things like, I dunno, health care?
by aya on Mon Feb 21, 05 11:07am
[+]
I hope so, but then again I'm sure the new system will be the same crap.
AARP, to my knowledge, isn't highly political ... they are almost a lobby group for older people.
eg: Note that they endorsed Bush's ill-considered Prescription Drug fiasco.
My mother's in AARP, and she's already starting a drive. Mister Bush, hope you've got a nice stash of food under your desk...
Cathexis - Are there any Lobbyist groups that go after conservative issues or is it just this awful USA Next group?
What do you feel about George Soros' efforts to destroy anything conservative? How about Michael Moore's blantant propaganda film 911?
Don't worry about answering as I'm being a bit facetious. My point is that you ask these questions and seem to always use a conservative group to use as your "bad guy" in your example. It goes BOTH ways and YES it has gone too far. Unfortunately, there will be little we can do about it until we address other issues that are more germane to what the REAL problem is - Lobbyist influence on our politicians!
Cathexis: "AARP, to my knowledge, isn't highly political"
I'm sorry Cathexis, but ROTFLMAO! I don't mean any disrepect - REALLY - But if you actual believe that you are more naive than I had previously thought.
Cathexis -
"The American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) is the nation's largest and most powerful interest group with more than 30 million members. the AARP's principal interests are the Social Security and Medicare system programs, the nation's largest and most expensive entitlements. It led the fight in Congress against the Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution. Like many other interest groups, the AARP has grown in membership not only by appealing to the political interests of retired people"
Now, why would the AARP lead the way in the fight against the Balanced Budget Amendment? You actually think this HUGE group is NOT political? Say it isn't so, Cath!
Dad: To answer, in order ...
1. I don't care much for any lobbying groups ... liberal, conservative, or whatever. IMO, lobbying groups subvert Democracy and take power from people and give it to Special Interests.
Back to lobbying groups: I guess I am just not as willing to say "Oh well, it's a fact of life." I detest all lobbying groups.
Still, it occurs to me that we've gotten off-topic, haven't we?
The discussion really isn't about AARP. It is about the nature of the attack ads aimed at them.
Are you suggesting that they are something acceptable?
Of course, there is nothing wrong with a lobbying oranization political. That is the point, rather.
But, apparently, when conservatives dwell on that, it is their way of misdirecting the argument away from the basic point which is that insider conservatives are using right-wing hate groups to spread lies about an organization that has helped millions of Americans--simply because it is lobbying against a bad piece of legislation. Legislation whose primary purpose seems to be to benefit Wall Street, as opposed to senior citizens.
The message is: Don't tell the truth about the Bush Mafia. You'll pay.
Cathexis - If you hate ALL lobbyists, you by definition, hate the AARP. Just a point. They are the nation's BIGGEST lobbying group by far! However, I happen to agree with you!
You state: "The lobbying group, USA Next, which has poured millions of dollars into Republican policy battles, now says it plans to spend as much as $10 million on commercials and other tactics assailing AARP"
By-the-way, USA Next is not just a lobbying group, it's a conservative alternative to the AARP and has 1.5 million members, that just so happens to use lobbying to advance their agenda. Just like the AARP. Art Linkletter is their National Chairman. So, basically USA Next is just the right wing version of the AARP. Right?
Just trying to give the folks a clear picture of what we are talking about. USA Next is not just some Republican "hit squad" that got hired to crush the AARP with smear ads. They are AARP's competition and thus it's natural for them to point out the differences. Right?
Basically, what I'm saying is that the AARP and USA Next are BOTH the same type of organization and BOTH engaged in lobbying efforts that they feel benefit themselves. The only difference is that the AARP is MUCH bigger and MUCH more powerful at this point. Right?
The reason I bring this up is after reading your ballot I first thought that USA Next was some right winged lobbyist group for hire. That is not the case at all. They are a conservative senior citizen group that operates on behalf of their members just like the AARP. Just wanted everyone to know that.
Here is a link to USA Next and I would suggest everyone take a good look:
Go to usanext dot org!
Let's see if I have this right now. It's USA Next that has hired "some" of the same consultants that were responsible for airing the Swift Boat Ads. Right?
What's wrong with that?
As long as the ads present the facts accurately, I don't have any problems with it. I found the swift boat ads to be just OK anyway. They didn't make me vote for Bush or against Kerry. I felt that if Kerry was going to run around on his campaign with "his" buddies and claim to be some kind of war hero then, the people that felt he wasn't had the right to tell their story as well. I didn't necessarily believe either side. I figured that the truth was somewhere in the middle anyway. Bottomline? If Kerry was going to let his dozens friends be heard about his war record, then the over 200 other Swift Boat veterans had a right to be heard as well.
Will USA Next be successful at what? Presenting the facts and exposing the AARP for being the mostly left-wing organization they are? Yes! I believe they will because it's already been starting to come out via other news sources and this new line of ads will expose them even further.
Will this help Bush in his push for SS reform. I believe that it can only help his case. So, YES I believe it will help him. Don't know if it will get passed or not. But it will definitely help!
Cathexis - Just out of curiosity. Can you point to a left-wing organization that has used "smear" ads to discredit a conservative person and entity?
Everygirl - You took the words right out of my mouth with this:
"They keep pushing the idea that Bush's plan will hurt the elderly & anyone that looks at the plan knows it's not even aimed at the elderly, it's intended to give choices of opting out to the younger workers for their future. If they keep trying to mis-lead their members I think they get what they deserve"
I just have to say Amen even if I am Agnostic!
The AARP has consistently come down on the side of the Democrats for years (with the 1 exception being Bush's prescription drug bill) and have NEVER come down on the side of lower taxes and ALWAYS come down on the side for HIGHER taxes. They are all about entitlements and BIG government. Some of it I understand, but things like being against the Balanced Budget Amendment I simply don't!
I sincerely hope that USA Next is successful in exposing the organization for what it has become. Perhasp then they will be forced to move back to the center and begin representing their members in a more fair manner.
I will also say that I want the consultants that produce the ads for USA Next to take the time to be accurate and fair in their work. Otherwise it will just be dismissed as "smear".
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