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COMMENTS:
The only reason nations retain their militaries is because there's GLORIOUS PROFIT to be made for the orchestrators of war. Namely rich old white men who send young men (and women) to die for the sake of the Bottom Line.
If you think I'm kidding or being glib, I promise you I'm not. Check out the better-known wars of the last century, and figure out who benefited - financially. There's always the same repeating pattern to be found.
you can say that again.. .Primitive pee-pee bearers, .The pinker the pushier. .. Mankind hasn't evolved enough to realize that's Pathetic.
by Jyl on Sun Apr 17, 05 12:43pm
[+]
I believe you Zig. I read an article recently about the Pharmaco-military industries running this country and about world-wide corporations really calling the shots in every government on the planet. I hate war. If one major country would just take the first step and disarm, or at least cut their entire military by 50%, maybe others would follow. I don't know how it would work, but it must be better than country's spending so much on military and not enough on people. I know that I'm tired of seeing depressing parmaceutica commericals on TV and I'm tired of W. being so agressive. Why is he so paranoid? How come people don't talk things through anymore?
What people forget is that human beings dont have some superior inbuilt sense of morality, we are after all essentially still apes in clothing. And along witht hat comes all the bad instincts that shouldnt have a place in a supposedely " civilised" society. Human nature has not evolved enough yet for all nations to trust each enough, and have the foresight , to dismantle all their weapons.
Hmmm, let's face it: a country without an army is like a man with no balls.
KingAlfred, that's a good point. Do you think if we were all the same in terms of having no national identity and if we all used the same currency, etc., it would change? I'm not advocating one world government or anything, but I wonder if we removed some of the the perceived "differences," if that would make a difference?
Because not everyone would disarm. Let's not have any cops, and just get everyone to agree not to commit crimes. There, crime has been wiped out right? No, of course not.
Besides, imagine the national benefit of being the only country with an established military left. If you can't imagine such a thing I promise you there are world leaders who would, which is why those nations wouldn't disarm. And of course the intelligent but peaceful nations would realize this outcome, and also not disarm (as they don't want to be slaves to those less peaceful nations).
Comparing a police force to massive military spending is not really accurate. Besides, if the money spent on military was put back into social programs and education, etc., the crime rate would probably drop dramatically. So what if there was a group that was comprised of representatives from every country and they went around and verified that they had disarmed? I mean, they did that in Iraq and it obviously worked, because no WMD's were found. I guess its a leap of faith. Maybe the US, Russia, China and every EU nation and Inida, etc. could all agree to make the first move to cut the military by 50% at least. Its a start.
Don't you (will you?) ever understand most people in the world grew up and grow up in societies and cultures that don't share your 'Live and Let Live" comfortable middle-class values and ideals (yes, very liberal viewpoints have "Middle-Class" written all over them)? The only parts of the world with a substantial, stable middle class are Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand and Japan, so this is a question dominated by so-called intellectuals from these areas. You won't hear Africans, most Asaians, or Latin Americans whining on this topic. There is one excellent reason why we have police, courts, and prisons: There are BAD people in the world and we civilized folks (I use "We" loosely) have to "Protect" ourselves from them with a strong, capable military. Some nations of the civilized world allow other nations to do the dirty work while they benefit just as much as their benefactors. That isn't fair and must stop.
you are sovereign unto yourself
"And of course the intelligent but peaceful nations would realize this outcome, and also not disarm (as they don't want to be slaves to those less peaceful nations)."
Well, we know that's not the States, that's for sure
by aya on Sun Apr 17, 05 6:06pm
[+]
exarmydude, I'm not sure what you mean? I think I do, but are you saying it would be better to at least cut military spending and arming by 50% to start off, or are you saying we need the military? Sorry if I'm not getting what you mean.
lol! I love "shut up you hippy" as a choice... that's a good one. If that was directed at me...if you only knew what I looked like, you'd see the irony! I get teased for being so "wholesome" looking and for being so "all-American looking," so am far from what you might think of a hippy :)
Hi Patch, basic human nature hasn't changed since the beginning of time. This is what I mean: I think you are making assumptions you shouldn't be making. One Man or womans idea of "Peaceful Co-Existence" may not, and often isn't, the same as another man or womans. I'll leave you with a piece of perhaps hackneyed but honest wisdom: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable and...too intelligent.
– George Orwell
Some wealthy perfectly capable nations have very little pressure on them to step up to the plate and make some SERIOUS (i.e. NOT UN "PeaceKeeping" LOL)efforts in helping to control the pernicious onslaught from less, dare I say civilized and liberal, nations and societies in our world and their desire to obfuscate and tear down the comfortable world we've created for ourselves in North America, Europe, etc., out of hatred and plain old jealously. These nations and people are often the most voricious in condeming and ridiculing the very umbrella of "Protection" from the big bad outside world (given to them by those "violent" nations)which allows them the freedom to protest. Political dissent is fine as long as folks have a firm grip on the big picture and their feet are firmly on the ground, not on cloud nine.
I guess you're right exar that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But if there were no arms races and no grab for military supremacy, because there were no major militaries, wouldn't people/nations be forced to use diplomacy? Believe me, I'm not so naieve as to think it would be easy or without peril, but even cutting it in half would help. We could probably have well over a $trillon to use for food, finding cures for disease, giving the homeless homes. It just seems that the world would stabilize more if we took care of basic human needs and agression would naturally diminsh if the populace was content. I'd like to see the "civilized" nations (if there really are any) make the first step. That being said, I realzie too your point is the prevailing wisdom and I'm really taking the contrarian view here. (that's what we hippies do you know :)
thanks!
This is a little off the mark but I was born, raised and have lived in big cities all my life and are intimately familar with "Homeless" people. Without a doubt some poor souls are down on their luck and deserve a helping hand. Also, some folks just don't have what it takes (i.e. mentally retarded, low IQ, etc.,) to function well in our society and deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. That said, in my experience the vast majority of "Homeless" people are addicts and others who are capable but un-willing to function in a civilized fashion. Many undoubtedly also have psychiatric disorders, but refuse and are not FORCED to take meds which would allow them to function. Throwing money at them hasn't and won't solve the problem. BTW: If it's available, check out your local class 3 (the worst of the worst) "Sex Offenders" list. You'll be amazed at the number who list their home address as a local homeless shelter or some form of goverment subsidized housing. As for the military thing, nature abhors a vacuum. Someone or thing is ALWAYS in the wing waiting to pounce and take over. Careful what you wish for, you may not like it.
On the subways in NY, some of the homeless ask for money because they lost their job. One guy the other day was fairly well dressed and he was clean and he said he had a stroke and did not have insurance and he has not gotten any government assistance yet, so he and his family needed help. I didn't, but I should have. I'd like to believe he was telling the truth. I see your point though and I guess I'm being a little too idealistic. I want to be though...it feels better than the cold reality. But maybe a dose of reality tossed in helps to keep it in perspective. Maybe one day I'll start a Utopia society as a sociological experiment and see how it goes. If you want to come and live there one day, you can :)
If every country in the world dismantled their military forces, great. But if just one decided to keep a powerful well equipped military, they could attack and threaten and do as they liked - and nobody else could do much about it but roll over - so to be fair, everyone has to be armed, or at least protected by somebody who is. This goes for nukes and any other kind of super powerful device that gives extreme advantage.
You're right ColdCircuit, that would be the risk. If there was a task force made up of one or two people from every country, maybe they could be the watchdogs and make sure no one country was arming.
Because all the other nations around them have militaries. It is what Buddhists refer to as the mirror-image complex. One nation-state sees all the others as threatening and meanacing while they see themselves as on the defensive and self-righteous. When every nation-state adopts this stance (which they have)- what ignorance abounds!
I think cutting world miltaries would be a good start- a good start to getting rid of militaries all together.
I disagree with 'shut up you hippy'. I am a pacifist but I do not follow the ideology of the hippy. I think they are self-indulgent and lazy.
'Humans are inherently greedy and irrational' ??? No, I disagree to that. To explain why would take long. I believe humans are naturally compassioante and selfless. See ballot #72071 if you want to discuss that.
..... War, what is it good for? Nothing.
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