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COMMENTS:
The typical Republican response is to focus on the messenger rather than the message. It is a logical fallacy, but very effective in distracting most people's attention. You see, anyone who questions something the US government does, hates freedom.
^look whose talking! The conditions aren't that questionable really ,letting the heat go up? It's Cuba! Every where you go the heats up, Castro has forbiddent the use of air conditioners (don't know why , but he won't allow the citizens to use them) & if you say the list they printed of the meals these guys eat (lemmon fish & orange glazed chicken) they are not only eating better than most Cubans but better than our military guys. It's just another reason to hate. Also the Pentagon has said they will allow any senator who wants a tour to go thru, I would suggest to put an end to the rumors they do that. It is a simple fact of life today that the liberals slam Bush at EVERY turn we expect that the press prints it , it's pretty much the same thing they did to his dad & to Regan, only much worse from what I've seen.
The US government hasn't arrested these guys because they are trying to be jerks, I don't get why the left has to make our government out to be the bad guys?
Again in terms of gitmo they have offered tours, that should speak volumns.
Liberal media?
I found this article buried on page 19 of the Washington Post, under an article deriding the Downing Street Memo.
Tours? Cool! Who's invited? Really, I'd like to know.
by mojo on Fri Jun 17, 05 10:10am
[+]
Lemon fish and glazed chicken...everygirl, you should know the guy who said that had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek.
by mojo on Fri Jun 17, 05 10:13am
[+]
The Pentagon invited the senators to go, really , true story. Also no toung in cheek that the release of the official "menu" list of at gitmo this past week , really, that's what I'm saying Durbin is a joke, also, to compare gitmo to the nazi camps, not only tells you how far left this guy is but the fact that he has no real understanding (or respect in my opinion) of what the innocent people in the nazi camps went through. The only one who should be ashamed is Durbin. I say it all the time out here look at the FACTS not some stupid statment from someone that has his own political agenda. A good rule of thumb about trusting the politicians or the press is , if you wouldn't take Bushs word on it just on his say so , you shouldn't just take their word on it either.
If he feels strongly about it, he has a right to say it. My understanding is that he did not call the soldier there Nazis, but rather that the camp was like a Nazis camp or Gulag. Let's face it, these are tough times and interrogating prisoners must be a hard job. As long as the conditions overall are safe and the prisoners are not being mis-treated or dehumanized, then the interrogators need to be able to do their job; these prisoners could have valuable information that could save lives and to be frank, they make no secret of their desier to hurt us big time, so in war, sometimes you have to do things you normally would not do. I hate the fact that this is the world we live in right now, but its the reality.
Okay, I'll bear that in mind when I listen to anything that comes out of Tom DeLay's mouth in future.
by mojo on Fri Jun 17, 05 10:48am
[+]
Dictator George and his stooges are trying to make the Gitmo tar baby go away, but their torture camp seems to keep sticking to them. Their only hope is to divert attention by questioning the patriotism of anyone who criticizes the inexcusable, unamerican actions of our newly re-elected fuehrer.
Same old stuff ... anyone who dares to question or, worse, criticize is an enemy and must be attacked.
They seem to firmly believe that if you are not with them, you area against them.
Tar baby your fanny cranks if you've ever seen the photos of the people in the nazi death camps you know good & well you can't compare the gitmo business with these camps & if your willing to again, that says more about where your heart (& memory) are not W, & funny how it so quickly gets pushed on W , Durbin knew it would when he said it, funny how you guys manage not to feel used by your own party's games & finger pointing, It's like they know "If we throw the stick , they'll fetch". Again ANY Senator wanting to go down & tour gitmo has been told to come.
That sounds like they are hiding something doesn't it ? If your listening with you liberal tainted ears yes it sounds very suspicious!!!!
Should the general rules of war and prisoner treatment apply at Gitmo? Of course.
Should the prisoners who have been/are abused be released? No. Punish the parties responsible for abuse and take measures to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Clear instructions and oversight are needed.
The group of prisoners at Gitmo doubtless have among them real terrorists as well as terrorist support personnel. These prisoners would threaten thousands and even millions if released. Do we put these American lives at risk to satisfy those who question our methods. No.
This is not a theoretical, school book exercise in civil liberties: It is a life and death struggle with a real enemy who wants to kill us.
Do you want someone who may or may not be a homicidal maniac released to live next door to you? Or do you want him in jail? Exactly.
The original question was about criticising the messenger instead of addressing the message. This seems to be a continuing theme from some members of the Bush administration. It's a distraction technique, and it just doesn't do a lot to inspire my trust.
by mojo on Fri Jun 17, 05 11:32am
[+]
What does Cuba have to do with Guantanomo except that Guantanomo is part of the island of Cuba. everygirl, you proved my point about distraction. It is those very visits by AI, Time, etc that have critized the conditions there. Sorry, I don't kiss Bush's ass for you while he violates the Geneva Convention. That is what you conservatives want us to do. Click our jackboots and salute der fuhrer Bush.
I will say though that Durbin's characterization was a bit over the top.
"Question the actions of those imprisoned". The problem with that statement, which Americans seem to forget is that they have not been found guilty. Even if found innocent there is no guarantee that they'll be set free.
How awful, woman interrogators, too much air conditioning, too little air condition, playing rap music. Those things don't even come close to torture and I can't believe you people would have a problem with this if it happened under any other president. Oh wait it did. Didn't they turn the power off in Wacco, Texas, while woman and children were in the compound and play loud rock music? Sounds a bit familiar except they didn't feed the people at Wacco. Where was the uproar then? The people at Gitmo could potentially save thousands of lives if they provide information, isn't that worth them catching a chill from an air conditioner set at 60.
And Cathexis, you can question anything you want, the problem I have is how things are interpreted and blown way out of proportion for the simple purpose of once again making GWB and America look bad.
ceejjj
It's clear the were imprisoned in Gitmo to get around the law.
You're welcome to keep them at your house closet
ceejjj
Truth hurts, don't it?
Closet, they just go around rounding up innocent civilians, I know. That is the main goal of the war. Now, I personally think that those who are proven to have killed others should be exectuted. I dont see you bitching about any prison system, despite the fact that some inmates are incarcerated unjustly.
CletuSlackedJawYokel
1. There hasn't been a trail. I'm sure the U.S military has done a fine job collecting "enemy combantants" (another way of getting around the international law) but there are probably some that shouldn't be there. You don't think that's possible? To be a called civilized nation you should follow the Geneva Convention and treat prisoners of war as all other prisoners of war are treated.
2. Yesm there are countries where when in prison you have no rights, America has joined that club. I'm simply pointing that out.
BS closet, and if the truth hurts that falls on you not me. I don't think they should even be in the prison, I think they should have been executed. There have been instances where they released some and guess what? They were caught attempting to kill our soldiers with other terrorists. Also stop the crap about the Geneva convention because they weren't wearing a military uniform when captured so by law they could have been shot on the spot, how do you feel about that?
So where are the soldiers being held that were wearing uniforms?
silly republican
brainwashed liberal
ceejjj
How am I brainwashed? You're the one avoiding the question.
The issue is not his comments! The issue is how we are perceived by the rest of the world. Example, Abu Grahib. Yes, Saddam Husseing did worse by far. But the US is supposed to be above that type of behavior. Things like that impugn the reputation of the US. Just as some of the things happening in Guantanomo do. It is not a gulag. But the real issue is that some things happening there are wrong and smear the reputation of the US throughout the world (whether fairly or unfairly).
Do you really think the Senator's comments help our reputation in the world's view? The terrorists are taught to hate us in school-so they will no matter what we really do. Nothing will matter to them, isn't that obvious? There is no appeasing terrorists and treating them with kid gloves in prison is ridiculous!
I am not avoiding the question, I just thought you were being smart. POW's are being held in detention centers throughout Iraq, why? What was the point of the question?
It didn't pertain to Guantanimo so I was just wondering.
ceejjj & everygirl: I have one question for yoy -- Do you believe that the FBI official lied when he testified about torture?
Torture is non-partisan (or should be). Democrats don't like it. Liberals don't like it. Republicans don't like it. Conservatives don't like it.
Partisans, however, will try to rationalize it.
What I am saying, which has been my contention in all my statements is, what was mentioned in the testimony is not torture in my opinion.
One other note, I wish just questioning would work, but in cases where finding information could save lives, I'm not opposed to torturing KNOWN terrorists to get it. I don't think what we are doing to them is torture to once again reiterate.
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