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COMMENTS:
lol, I don't mean to be, just trying to understand all sides.
But I feel it is true, some of our pc people would not say a word about anti christian ballots , but protest anti muslim, that is something I really do not understand
hahahhaha I find this funny. I agree with larry and have brought up this point before. You make a bunch of anti-christian ballots and the "politically correct" NEVER NEVER NEVER say a word. larry, kev and myself have commented in opposition to those ballots. You have NOT. Not even once to my knowledge. Those aren't even news oriented ballots either, but attacking the sacred texts of a religion.
You make some ballot that could be construed as pointing out some hypocrisy of the muslim world and then it is a big deal. Flailing all about.... How dare you? Evil Herzog! Give me a break.
I simply don't have any respect for people when they only whine about herzog's ballots and I NEVER see them bitch about the HUNDREDS of anti Christian ballot of Robingaylord.
It is called hypocrisy guys.
You start going after the other religious oriented bashers and then I'll listen. But, you won't, so I am safe.
Give me a break. I'm tired of your knee jerk reactions.
I guess presenting facts about muslims incites hatred of muslims. What does that tell you?
And yes, steel, dung, you two are hypocrites.
"However, herzog *isn't* part of the Muslim community, nor does he appear to have any in-depth knowledge of it beyond what he's read in the gutter press."
This is utter rubbish. Would you then suggest that non-Muslims who have lived under Muslim-dominated governments have no right to criticize the generally rotten civil rights record of the Muslim world towards religious minorities? Should Bat Yeor (Coptic Egyptian) just shut up about her critiques of the treatment of the "dhimmi" then? There shouldn't be any ballots about Iranian abuse of Baha'i? How about the "blasphemy" and "apostasy" laws in Pakistan that are used to intimidate and threaten Hindus and Christians and former Muslim converts to other religions?
Islam's a world religion, and, whether or not you're Muslim, it may impact you in both intended and unintended ways. You should have EVERY right to comment on it--unless you're living in a theocracy or some wretched hellhole run by the PC left-wing secret police.
Oh, and I very much doubt every anti-Christian ballot's written on this site by Christians or those with a Christian upbringing. Quite a few come from self-avowed atheists and even a handful from Muslims. So, really, you're dead wrong about this.
So dung, we can expect all criticism of the US from non-americans to stop? And all criticism of whites, christians, men, republicans, etc from people who aren't in those groups to stop?
Or are you just a giant hypocrite?
I've seen hundreds of ballots on religion. Only one of those was rated as "bad". It was about Islam. This is despite the fact that this ballot has attracted over 1500 votes AND that their are IDENTICAL ballots about Judaism and Christianity that are not rated bad. A Christian bashing ballot was actually rated better than "good".
I've seen anti Christian and Judaism ballots that are full of lies. None of them were rated bad.
So a ballot about a news story is anti-Islam? That is BS.
So Islam gets a break on this site?
You guys who rate down these ballots are abusing the karma system.
"Actually he's not anti anything in particular. Just anti anything white or american. oh and republican. "
I meant anti anything that's NOT white, american and republican!
My concern is simply herzogs fixation with non white christian republicans.
I stand by what i said FF But bear in mind that the quote you so kindly supplied me with could be put to any religious doctrine. but i would assume i would get little by way of a response. seeing as very few people on this site are islamic. i know of 2 and theyre not exactly fundamentalists :)
And to be honest I try and make religious debate open to interpretation when i make them. i dont really want to be biased at any rate. becaus i think its all dumb.
I guess in a way thats a kind of religious bigotry. but its my reaction to the biggoted beliefs of faith based religion.
Religion has no part in a modern society above that of a hobby. Fine if you just believe. not so fine that you expect everyone to accept it without question. Lets face it. christianity voted in bush. Not a dig at bush but an example of how religion can motivate politics and i for one resent it in any form.
A lot of my childhood was spent in and around a place called lancaster in England. Theres a castle there and sometime back witches from surrounding villages were gathered up and strung of the castle walls.
These women turned out to have been land owners and the only evidence was a contradictory story of petty jealousy and dislike. the christian church deemed them witches and hanged them. guess who got the land?? thats right the church did.
So when i rage about christianity thats one of many many examples of what religion and politics does.
Sigh
Herzog is So damn clever (in this case not a compliment).
Here's the deal for those of you too stupid to work it out for yourself.
Herzog tells a great little anecdote about a guy who got all riled up about something that seems to have passed everybody else by (obviously not that big of a deal).
Look, says Herzog, this guy is a muslim. He over-reacted! Is he reasonable and rational? No, of course he was being reasonable and rational - he was blowing something out of proportion.
Is it a news-worthy story? No.
Is it interesting? Not really?
So why report it in the first place and why add it to a growing list of ballots that criticise Islam?
Because he is slowing allowing those people who secretly agree with him that muslims are evil to consolidate that hatred.
Look! Muslims over-react! Says, Herzog. Look they are unreasonable and irrational! Let's hate them some more!
Come on! What are we waiting for?! Let's HATE!
Those of you who stand by this kind of behaviour or even make excuses for it are no better.
Shame on you.
You've got a buddy herzog. i bet ur thrilled to bits?
NO?
I NEVER rate down ballots that are religious or anything else, I cannot remember the last time I gave negative karma.
I am unsure where people got the idea that I did.
As to your point that I was being pejorative, do you ACTUALLY read Herzogs comments, or do you just go into autopilot and defend the indefensible?
Let's get to the bottom of this.
Steel, widehead, mobs, etc: do you believe this ballot was made up? Or do you accept that it is a real news story?
If you accept that the ballot is real, do you then oppose it because you believe all negative news about muslims should be censored?
If you acknowledge that this ballot is valid, and that news shouldn't be censored to avoid offending people, is the only problem you have that I haven't bashed christianity to an equal amount?
I know that christians do stupid things, and when they do I call them on it. But they don't do it to nearly the degree or amount as muslims. Name the last christian terrorist, there are some. Then to compare I'll name some muslim terrorists from this year. Name the last time a person was killed by christians in the name of christ, I'll offer up examples of muslims doing the same while chanting 'allah akbar'. Name examples of nations crushed under christian religious dogma, and we'll compare that with the nations suffering under shari'a law. Point out how many riots have been started by christians at the mere hint of offense against their religion by a non-christian, and I'll do the same for islam.
It's not that I hate the race of islam (as you keep claiming) because as you should know by now, there is no islamic race. So you can stop with the 'racist' or 'herzog hates nonwhites and nonchristians' (odd since I'm no christian and islam isn't a race).
Islam is very similar to what christianity would be today, if it hadn't gone through the reformation. Judiasm was like this two. The three major western religions all started out very similar. But two of them grew up. Islam is still stuck in the dark ages and most muslims are still stuck with the dark age way of thinking. This isthe issue. You refuse to acknowledge any fault in islam because you are too busy attacking your own people. Well try opening your eyes and looking at things objectively. The news isn't controlled by the jews, they aren't out to smear muslims. That's actually what's happening around the world. Now watch it some time and tell me if you still believe islam is not causing more than it's fair share of misery around the world.
Also, the term "racist" doesn't only fall into "race". It can be used to identify someone who discriminates or hates a religion, sex, race, nationality, etc...
"Christian missionaries terrorizing African and Indian native tribes is something that CNN and Fox can't afford to show." The last time someone cited a tale of Christian missionaries terrorizing Asian Indians here, it came directly from a BJP/Hindu-nationalist sponsored website. The last report on Africans came from a similarly slanted source. Besides, last I checked Christian missionaries weren't in charge of Congress, unlike the Muslim fundamentalists in Iran or the Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia. It all comes down to political control, doesn't it? Fundamentalist Christians hold a certain amount of political sway in the U.S., but they hardly run the show.
I really don't care, one way or the other who's doing it, since I'm an agnostic. I just notice that the most theocratic states on the planet with the worst record on rights for religious minorities mostly happen to be Muslim-majority states. Yes, sure, mention Burma (Myanmar) or China while you're at it, but the witch trials, religious wars, and heresy trials in Western Europe and the U.S. have been over for over two centuries. When will the Muslims catch up, I wonder?
Steel the first comment is the one I was referring to and you know that don't cha?
Herzog
That is exactly the point that Islam has not reformed. The vast majority are still practicing the habits of humanity from the time of the Crusades and before.
Lib_Dem
And of CNN and other sources you don't hear shit about the destruction of hundreds of churches in your former neck of the woods
YUGOSLAVIA
and even though Kosovo is the traditional/ancient root of Serbia
the US turned it over for the Muslims to totally eradicate the Christian churches.
And then we can look at the blowing up of Buddhist statues by the Taliban. That got media coverage because many in the west are enamored of the philosophy.
So what.
And why don't you come out and be more specifice about what you mean about Indian tribes and African missionary abuses.
I know of a BLACK African operating in a mostly animist area that believes he is the Son of the Catholic God.
How about one example?
How about specifically one name of one country?
That is all very ephemeral of you to shadow the argument with saying that we aren't getting the news. so obviously you are
let us know where to look you idiot.
Sad
Herzog shifts the argument so he doesnt have to deal with whats sais.
felix just cries agnostic. wow thats cool. and regnum? what the fuck is regnum???
Wether the stroy is real or not herzog the point remains that you brought this up to prove urself right,,,
but you're not.
mobsie666
quite clearly you are incapable of cogent thought.
So let the grownups talk and go play with your playstation.
"Steel, widehead, mobs, etc: do you believe this ballot was made up? Or do you accept that it is a real news story?"
by herzog on Sep 19, 2005 10:30am
I dealt with this question in my earlier post but just in case you missed it....
The story is simply not newsworthy AT ALL. It's too boring and inconsequential to anyones life.
It simply puts a muslim man in a bad light (and hey, we all know there's no other side to muslims, right?) in order to perpetuate a stereotype.
Herzog, we know that muslims aren't a race but we also know that the majority of them that you refer to in your 'news stories' are of middle eastern or asian origin.
You don't appear to like non-whites very much (your comments about black americans and Muslims are evidence enough) hence, you appear to be a racist.
No one here is siding with terrorists and a guy going loopy over some ice cream lid or whatever it was is not perpetrating an "indefensible" act - he's just a mad idiot who needs help.
Maybe if you reported on some other issues you wouldn't get labelled a racist. But since all you do is bash muslims, Islam and black americans it's no surprise people are making that connection.
mmmmm yeah..... I can imagine the fun that would be of this guy if he were Christian. No complaints on that one.
Furthermore, who are the IDIOTS voting for "jewish conspiracy??
'vWether the stroy is real or not herzog the point remains that you brought this up to prove urself right,,,'
So you finally admit the story is real. Now to my second question: should these stories be censored, perhaps by the government, to prevent causing offense to certain minority groups?
Funny widehead, I have a feeling that if a christian was pissed off and demanded something similiar you'd expect this story to be in the front pages for weeks, to show how ignorant and bigoted christians are. But you seemed to have answered my 2nd question: yes the news should be censored to avoid offending minorities. Do you believe they are so thin skinned that without your protection all these lesser people would riot in the streets? Perhaps we should push them all together in groups where they can be more easily protected and watched over by enlightened liberals like yourself to ensure no harm comes to them? Because as we all know, minorities can't live on their own, they must be protected by wiser people. Right widehead?
Haha what won't they declare a jihad on there all fucked in the head.
terrorists that is
" The story is simply not newsworthy AT ALL. It's too boring and inconsequential to anyones life.
It simply puts a muslim man in a bad light (and hey, we all know there's no other side to muslims, right?) in order to perpetuate a stereotype."
by wideheadofknowledge on Sep 20, 2005 4:29a
So if the news doesn't agree with what you think is important then it shouldn't be printed?
And if the news isn't important to you then everyone should be denied it?
Stalinist-era PRAVDA
anyone?
And lackofknowledgehead
you are only trying to silence with the charge of racism.
And by trivialising racism by accusing those you don't agree with
you are doing a disservice to the people who are really suffering from discrimination
by CRYING WOLF.
Inter_Regnum, you do understand that the number of Mosques burnt down by Serbs outnumbered the Churches being burnt by at least 20 times. Oh, another fact: Are you aware that the Radical Serbian Eastern-Orthodox Armies burnt down Roman Catholic churches too? I don't see you condemning them. And YES they still exist today. Look up the flag of Serbian Republic (located in Bosnia & Herzegovina) and while you're at it look at some of their politicians too, as well as their cause. If you know as much as you say you know then you'll know that their flag is the same one that Radical Cetnik Terrorists had, and that their politicians are the same ones who praised the Serbian agression against Croatia, Kosovo, Bosnia & Herzegovina, and Slovenia.
Kosovo deserves its independence because the number of crimes commited by The Serbian National Army (during the 80s as well as 90s) against its citizens are to harsh to forgive the Serbs for. If they want to burn down the churches that their opressors once held their meetings at then that's fine. Same way the Serbs torched the Mosques the Ottomans left right after their decline.
"and even though Kosovo is the traditional/ancient root of Serbia the US turned it over for the Muslims to totally eradicate the Christian churches."
Good argument, lol. If you gave back all the land to it's "ancient holders" then there would be no civilization.
wow, are we off-topic now. I want a Whopper to eat.
LD I only care that the Kosovars are burning Christian churches now.
Those other thing you mention don't help me advance my argument.
so why would I mention them.
By your logic that ethnic outsiders get to have an important part of a country if atroticities are committed against them
then should Jews be given Bavaria
lol (at your arguments)
"So if the news doesn't agree with what you think is important then it shouldn't be printed?
And if the news isn't important to you then everyone should be denied it?"
This story is not news. If every irrational act was newsworthy there wouldn't be time for anything like politics, world events etc.
And, Herzog.
No the news should not be censored to avoid offending minorities but by the same token it should not be used to perpetuate racist stereotypes.
In that case your argument, like you, is biased and stupid.
"In that case your argument, like you, is biased and stupid."
by Liberal_Democrat on Sep 22, 2005 10:03pm
My argument is biased? Why because I don't feel that the news should report unimportant stories in order to perpetuate steretypes?
"In that case your argument, like you, is biased and stupid."
by Liberal_Democrat on Sep 22, 2005 10:03pm
My argument is biased? Why because I don't feel that the news should report unimportant stories in order to perpetuate racist steretypes?
I saw a girl go crazy at her boyfriend last weekend. She was thrashing around and had to be held down by friends. Why? Because her boyfriend checked out a coffee shop waitress. Is that story newsworthy? No, it isn't. Could I use it to reinforce a sexist stereotype? Yep, I sure could. Girls are crazy when they get jealous right? Well, no that's not true and it would be unfair of me to use that as evidence of irrational female behaviour.
Now, lets see what Herzog is up to... Oh, look! A pointless, unimportant, irrelevant article about a guy losing it over a carton lid. Move along, people - nothing to see here. Wait! The guy is a muslim. Lets add that to the ever growing ballots and comments about how evil, irrational and unpleasant Islam and, by association, Muslims are.
It's truly sickening that anyone would rush to defend this kind of crawling racism that seems to affect a silent majority of people.
Reinforcing negative stereotypes like Herzog does is racist, plain and simple. If you find yourself defending his position be prepared to admit to yourself your true feelings towards other races, cultures and religions. You may be disheartened at what you find lurking deep inside.
I want that ballot about the woman going ballistic in the coffee shop. Sounds like a fun ballot.
WIdehead, that was directed toward inter_regnum. My fault for not saying so, sorry if you felt offended.
how can a 16 year old say that????
Its good to see Herzog getting roundly trounced in an argument again.
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