COMMENTS:
Maybe porn and big blamo-guns are both for The Stupit? :D
by Jyl on Thu Oct 06, 05 10:03pm
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hm but wait, "many of the same people"?
Where'd you get that from, a study you can post here?
by Jyl on Thu Oct 06, 05 10:21pm
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(I don't mean to fight, but hard porn's enough to convince me that The Stupid should not only be silenced, but also neutered. Heavens think of what it would do for the world.)
by Jyl on Thu Oct 06, 05 10:23pm
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The main people that I was thinking of in this ballot was the ACLU, who consistently fight against the individual right to arms but fight for people like Larry Flint.
Very good question. It is an inconsistency. However, I just cannot see why Joe Citizen needs an AK-47 or RPG to defend himself.
Inconsistant, and it goes both ways as many conservatives make the exact opposite argument.
The idea that a citizen would need an M16 or an RPG would be much more anticipated by the founding fathers than the existence of pronography.
The weapons of the day were the assault weapons of the day (well maybe they wouldn't have allowed for people owning RPGs) and that was exactly what the framers were trying to ensure:
The citizens armed in such a way as to overthrow a tyrannical government. I think I prefer the Jeffersonian ideal of periodic revolution to refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of the tyrant and the patriot alike.
so the civil war clock is ticking
by Jyl on Fri Oct 07, 05 10:13am
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"I just cannot see why Joe Citizen needs an AK-47 or RPG to defend himself."
How domesticated and short-sighted.If everybody was like you fiddlefaddle you would have a solid argument.I'm here to tell you that the US as we know it is a cardhouse so much more so than the average Joe even knows.
"so the civil war clock is ticking"
Yes and there is precious little that can be done to reverse it's course.I give until 2050 tops ...
Does anyone really *need* the internet for entertainment purposes? Obviously not. Other than education and business all this free exchange of information on the web is unnecessary and certainly the founding fathers never anticipated all the staggering levels of porn that would be at our fingertips.
Go ahead and ban it. As well as any television or radio that is deemed unnecessary, for the same reasons. Afterall, we should have to clearly explain our need to the government for any action before we are allowed any freedoms.
From Thomas Chittum's "American civil war 2"
"The underlying cause of this second civil war is nothing less than the very nature of our
country and its peoples. There are essentially two types of geopolitical entities -empires
and nations- and they're best considered by contrasting each to the other.
Empires are generally larger, sometimes even global in scope, and more likely to be
geographically fragmented. Nations, on the other hand, are usually smaller and
geographically continuous.
Empires consist of peoples of different religions, languages, cultures, races, and
nationalities. One of these groups, a minority itself dominates the others by naked military
power. Nations, on the other hand, are dominated by one group that makes up a majority
of the population. Finally and most important, nations are inherently stable while empires
are always inherently unstable. Nations are naturally stable because a majority of the
people mutually recognize each other as co-nationals. Multiethnic empires never achieve
true internal stability. They survive only by unrelenting military and police suppression of
their inhabitants, and break up the minute the dominant group loses the military power, or
the will, to shackle the empire's peoples together.
To understand the future, study the past. Throughout world history, all multiethnic empires
have broken up, and almost always in cataclysmic violence. Therefore, the question is not
if the multiethnic American Empire will shatter, but when and under what circumstances."
"Trend 1: Heavy Weapons
Watch future riots to see if heavy weapons such as attack aircraft, artillery, or armored
vehicles are used to suppress them. If they are, we'll know we've taken another critical
step towards Civil War II. Actually, in the Los Angels riot of'92, armored personnel carriers
were used by the Los Angeles police to flush out organized snipers in the predominately
black Jordan Downs housing project (Robert vernon, LA. Justice, Focus on the Family
Publishing, 1993, pp. 22-27.). Armored personnel carriers are not police vehicles; armored
personnel carriers are military attack vehicles. Armored vehicles were necessary because
the riot was not actually a riot, but a hybrid somewhere between a riot and a war. It is a
stark fact that these riots are increasingly taking on the characteristics of outright warfare,
and that the police are increasingly and necessarily taking on the characteristics of armies
in order to fight these wars. This ongoing conversion of our police departments into military
formations is reflected by their increasing use of armored vehicles, helicopters, bulletspraying
assault rifles, combat helmets, bulletproof vests, military uniforms, sniper rifles,
and military organizational structures such as SWAT teams.
Trend 2: Ethnic Militias
Watch riots for confrontations between armed ethnic militias, because such confrontations
will certainly precede Civil War II. Actually, a confrontation between armed ethnic militias
has already occurred. In the Los Angeles riot of '92, Korean merchants spontaneously
formed a de facto ethnic militia (Newsweek, "The Siege of LA.", May 11,1992, p. 38.).
They armed themselves with pistols and shotguns, stationed themselves on the roofs of
the buildings in their shopping center, and coordinated their defense of their property with
citizen band radios. In so doing they successfully defended their property against similar
armed ethnic militias composed of black street gang members that torched much of Los
Angeles. In the Los Angeles riot of '92, armed ethnic militias confronted each other on
American soil, but the significance was missed, intentionally or otherwise, by the politicallycorrect
establishment media. Why?"
"Trend 3: Barricades
When rioters erect barricades, they're taking an important step, consciously or
unconsciously, towards creating a new nation, however small or temporary. These
barricades are boundaries. They proclaim that all on one side are of the same tribe, and
that all on the other side are foreigners. These barricades are physical boundaries that are
preceded by and reflect the boundaries in the hearts and minds of those who erected
them. After these physical barricades are torn down by the police, the barricades still
remain in the hearts and minds of those who erected them, and therein lies the real
problem, because barricades in hearts and minds can not be torn down by any amount of
police force."
"Our Unstable,
Tiered Society
"The only stable state is she one in which all men are equal before the law. "—
Aristotle
Multiethnic empires are always tiered, undemocratic societies because it is impossible for
empires to be other than tiered, undemocratic societies. Empires are always undemocratic
because the diverse peoples making up the empire have nothing in common to serve as
the foundation for the empire's laws -no common mythology, no common language, no
common culture, no common history, and- most important no common vision of the
empire's future. Therefore, the laws of an empire are always unpopular with most of the
empire's subjects, who would certainly either take over the empires's government, or set
up their own new nation on a portion of the empire if they could do so democratically.
Therefore, the people must be denied democracy in order to hold the empire together and
force must be used to keep the resulting undemocratic and unpopular imperial government
in power.
Empires are necessarily tiered because a certain group or groups must be given special
privileges to enlist their support in the subjugation of the other groups. The more groups an
empire has, the more tiers it will have.
Empires have laws, of course, but they're a facade, and massed behind the facade and
ever ready to smash the inevitable rebellions of the empire's subjects are the appropriate
military formations—the Pretorian Guard of ancient Rome, the Royal British Navy, Hitler's
Waffen SS, the KGB and MVD internal security forces of Russia, and whatever band of
mercenary thugs that will be charged with binding Imperial America together. The cynicism
that always accompanies undemocratic, imperial governments promotes corruption, social
tiering, militarism, racism, tribalism, and intolerance of all conceivable varieties."
"How will the armies that fight Civil War II come into being? Who will join them, and why,
and where will they get their weapons? America is saturated with armed organizations that
will blossom into the tribal armies of Civil War II: The Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the
Marines, the Coast Guard, their reserve components, and fifty state national guards. The
Border Patrol, the Secret Service, the BATF, the DEA, the FBI, the CIA and U.S. Marshals.
All totalled, there are 46 civilian agencies of the federal government that have agents who
carry guns and have the power to make arrests, (Harper's Magazine, "Harper's Index",
June, 1995, p. 11.) Don't go away; there's more.
State police, county police, city police, housing police, transit police, Indian reservation
police, prison guards, and private security companies. (And now for the tribal party
animals!)
The Mafia, the Colombian cocaine cartels, Jamaican posses, The Ghost Shadows, the
Flying Dragons, anti-Castro paramilitary units, Moslem terrorist cells, the Jewish Defense
League, the Fruit of Islam, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, the Christian Identity movement,
armed religious cults, the Black Guerrilla Family, Crips, Bloods, the Gangster Disciples,
the Black Disciples, the Latin Disciples, the Latin Kings, the Simon City Royals, the
Mexican Mafia, the Big Time Criminals, Hispanics Causing Panic, the LA Boyz, the Netas,
the Zulu Nation, the Jungle Boys, the Jungle Brothers, the Abdullahs, Los Solidos, the
Hazard Gang, the Nuestra Familia, United Raza, the Fresno Bulldogs, the Two Sixers, the
Insane Deuces, the Insane Unknowns, 20 Love, the Bottoms Boys, the Vice Lords, the
Harpys, the Aryan Brotherhood, the Aryan Nations, the White Patriot Party, the Michigan
Militia, the Blue Ridge Hunt Club, the Alabama Militia, the Arizona Militia, the Butte County
Militia, the Indiana Militia, the Michigan Militia, the Montana Militia, the Georgia Militia, the
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Oregon Militia, the Colorado Free Militia, the Texas Constitutional Militia, the Carbineers,
the Minnesota Patriots Council, the Texas Emergency Reserve, the Alabama Minutemen,
the Special Forces Underground, Hell's Angels, Banditos, the Gypsy Jokers, Pagans,
Warlocks, the International Posse, the Black Panther Militia, the Aryan Republican Army,
White Aryan Resistance, the Islamic Liberation Army, the Freemen, skinheads, and other
armed groups too numerous to mention.
These fellows are not the sort of chaps one would invite to tea with Her Majesty. On the
other hand, they are just the kind of all-American guys to play Civil War II from kickoff to
champagne. These belligerent groups are almost all ethnically oriented, and our police
departments are increasingly becoming ethnically oriented as well. Unless present trends
reverse themselves, even the federal agencies and federal military will be racially oriented
and polarized. Not a pretty picture. America is plainly splitting up into armed camps along
ethnic fault lines, but no one seems to have noticed, certainly not the establishment media.
Why?"
So for hogging up so much ballot space but this is only the tip of the imformation contained within this frightening book and alot of imformation must be divulged to present the bigger picture ...There's much more but I think that is enough for anybody interested to get the picture.
I asked for more information on that book on your messages. It does seem interesting.
Now, it doesn't really answer the question. Although at least it is relevant to the topic in an obscure way.
Sure,I went off on a tangeant(must be the ADD) but fiddlefaddle's response set me on that course and even though the matter I brought up eclipses,in topic anyway,the ballot's question,at least there is the second amendment component to it.Sorry for rambliing on ...
As for that book,unfortunately it's no longer in publication(WONDER WHY?)I do have it on an Adobe file in my computer.Occasionally it pops up in Adobe format on some internet websites I'm told.My buddy got me my copy.It's deffinitly a book to be taken seriously as the author is an ex soldier of many wars and a historian and knows his stuff.Most people just say "yeah sure"... until they read it.
I'm in favor of any American who has not been convicted of a felony to be able to possess personal firearms. I do think we need stringent laws to compel parents to lock guns away from children.
I also think we need to limit the amount of firepower a person can possess.
I also support freedom of speech, even if I gag on some of the stuff this freedom allows.
Here's a little more ....
Civil war 2Checklist(consolodated):
The abolition of the right to bear arms. This must be done to reduce the military
potential of those assigned to the bottom tier of the emerging multiethnic American
Empire.
If the racial tattooing of ethnic classifications on ID cards and other documents
persists, we'll know the countdown clock is ticking.
If illegal aliens are allowed to vote, even in local elections, it will be another
unmistakable signal that American citizenship, and therefore America itself, is finished.
Watch for racially split juries.This will be one
of the most serious indicators that we're edging closer to a social earthquake and a
breakup along tribal fault lines.
Watch for the military to assume police duties.
Watch for the establishment of an elite military force outside the chain of command
of the regular military to serve as an internal counterinsurgency force. The Russians have
exactly such a military force called Internal Security which is under the command of the
interior ministry (the MVD), not the regular military. The MVD internal security has its own
tanks, helicopters and artillery and its primary mission is suppressing internal disturbances
too serious for the police such as mutinies of regular military units, riots, strikes by
workers, and ethnic rebellions such as the recent uprising in Chechnya.
Watch for Africans and other minorities demanding, and often
getting, separate facilities for themselves, another clear sign that they're continuing to
reject co-option.
Watch for further replacement of individual rights by group rights, group rights
based on ethnic group. Empires employ this method to enlist certain favored groups in
suppressing the others, and racist affirmative action is a classic example of this
replacement of our rights as individuals by a race-based system of penalties and special
privileges.
Watch for non-governmental organizations acquiring military power. As we are
increasingly losing our common identity as Americans, people are increasingly turning to
alternate sources of psychological fulfillment and the increasingly necessary military
protection that such organizations are extending. The Waco cult, street gangs, the Nation
of Islam, and white militias are all partly manifestations of this trend.
Watch for real political power to continue to shift from our elected officials to the
courts, and thus away from the American people. Since the Sixties, the real power of the
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judicial branch of our government has been vastly expanded at the expense of the
legislative and executive branches. This is no accident. Recall that judges are almost
always appointed, often for life. The people have no effective way of ridding themselves of
these usurpers of our Bill of Rights. These unelected judges use euphemisms like
affirmative action to promote imperial tiering while they summarily strip citizens of their
traditional and constitutional rights.
Watch for more instances of real political power flowing from American
institutions to international bodies, thus again flowing away from American citizens.
Specifically, watch for NAFTA-type treaties that hand over to international bodies the
power to regulate matters concerning American trade, taxes and control of our borders.
Watch for secessionist movements and other movements seeking autonomy on
American soil.
Watch for race-based political parties, a sure sign of racial polarization.
Watch for the emergence of "no-go" areas for the police in our cities, areas
abandoned by the police and left to the control of street gangs. The existence of these
areas will be officially denied of course, and the police will occasionally mount media
oriented forays into them, but it will be pure theater.
Watch other multiethnic empires for ethnic violence, a general loss of democracy,
increasing poverty, waves of refugees, and their actual breakup in ethnic warfare. South
Africa, Russia, Turkey, the Balkan countries, Brazil, all of black Africa, Mexico, Guatemala,
India, Pakistan and Peru are all multiethnic empires to some extent. As they go, so will
America. Every time you see ethnic warfare in some foreign multiethnic country, ask
yourself if we're not becoming more and more like them every day. If you think we are,
then think Civil War II.
Watch for the spread of walled suburbs, euphemistically labeled as gated
communities. America is taking on the appearance of medieval Europe, and for exactly the
same reasons - marauding criminals, marauding gangs of criminals and, eventually,
marauding armies of criminals, Approximately four million Americans now live in
communities literally encircled by walls and security guards. Most are affluent whites who
will increasingly vote against municipal improvements because they feel safe against the
turmoil outside their gates and walls.
Watch for an increasing percentage of minorities in our military, the use of
foreigners in our military, the use of UN troops on our soil, or even the establishment of an
American Foreign Legion. Recall that empires often employ foreign mercenaries to put
down internal rebellions, just as the British employed German mercenaries to crush our
War of Independence, because citizen soldiers are often reluctant to fire upon their fellow
citizens or co-ethnics.
Watch for more restrictions on freedom of speech by the government and the
establishment media. This will drive non-establishment people underground and radicalize
them.Every time you hear of someone being fired, or otherwise punished for some
politically incorrect utterance, think Civil War II.
Watch for police to increasingly abandon their traditional uniforms for ones that
resemble military and secret police uniforms in their dark color or camouflage, military
helmets, opaque face shields, and absence of name tags.
Watch for an arm of the federal government charged with promoting racist
affirmative action, such as the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, to acquire
agents that carry guns and have the power to make arrests.
Watch for the collapse of the US dollar as the world's premier currency. This will
be the signal that will confirm our status as a third-world nation
Watch for the breakup of Canada. If Canada does break up along ethnic and
linguistic lines, it will bode ill for its neighbor which is an even worse multiethnic and
multilingual mishmash.
Watch for political and legal organizations formed along ethnic lines that will
parallel, and ultimately displace their official rivals. For instance, watch for organizations
with names like The Association of Hispanic States, or the Black Mayors Conference.
Every time you see a help wanted ad requiring
bilingualism, think Civil War II.
Watch for indications that the UN is assuming the role of a world government,
and that the US is losing even more of its national sovereignty to the UN. Occupation of
the United States by United Nations troops is not the fantasy of militia groups that the
establishment press makes it out to be.
All the world waits to see if America will become a multiethnic, democratic nation with a
nonracial social contract, or if it will devolve into an ethnically and socially-tiered third-world
empire, and shatter exactly as all other multiethnic, undemocratic empires have throughout
world history. When America erupts in flames, all the world will rightly conclude that
Liberty's torch set her ablaze, and that democracy and a multiethnic society are mutually
exclusive.
Western Civilization will be transformed; tribalism will blossom into its ultimate expression.
Nations will unite into super blocks of Europeans against Africans. Christians against
Moslems, East against West, and rich against poor until some hideous climax predator
claws its way to the top of the smoking global bone heap. And what excuse will we
Americans have? That our fathers didn't leave us a Bill of Rights to light our way? That no
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one cautioned us that a house divided against itself cannot stand? That no one told us that
we should judge one another by character rather than color?
Like all men of goodwill, I ask nothing more than to live peacefully in my own country
where I enjoy the equal protection of the law without corruption of blood, exactly as set
down in our Constitution. Regrettably, this simple and just concept is dead, and so is
America.
"There are people who argue against the right for the personal possession of arms do so on the basis that the founding fathers couldn't have forseen the type of weapons that would be available."
Liberals are furthing this countries demise just as the neocons are that wish "spread freedom" globally.And yes,those who argue against the second amendment but for pornography rights are hypocrites.
Robotthinker, if you just give me the title and the author I know that I can get a copy. I have a good source for books.
"Civil War Two" the coming breakup of America - by Thomas W. Chittum.
I.R: Who says that the founding fathers did not intend for the 1st amendmant to be used to protect pornography?The whole point of the 1st is to protect those ideas,beliefs and or images that are repulisive and offensive to the majority of people.I believe the founding fathers did fore see that future gernerations would be more liberal with their sexuality and had that in mind when they were creating the Constitution.
Corrupt, I don't agree with your assessment, but that is not the point I am making.
If they could have forseen the advancement of pornography they would have certainly forseen the advancement of weaponry and would most definitely have approved of assualt weapons in the hands of the citizenry.
Right?
It not easy to maintain something like the constitution through centuries of technological and societal progression (in some areas, DI-gression).
This is because inevitably it cant be perfect first time, due to limitations in the creators prescience of future conditions.
The trick is to manage these necessary changes whilst still maintaining the principle essences of the various amendments, easier than said than done.
I cant give a particular definitive opnion on this one at this time I dont think, but I can recommend your mental criteria at the time of your decision.
I would say envisage what the creators intended the law for originally, in essence. Were guns permitted to allow the people to rebel aginst any possible future oppressive regime? Or to protect from each other i.e self defence?
If the former takes presedence then an RPG is by no means out of the question, as any weapons must be capable of fighting the government controlled American army.
However, if the latter takes priority then i think youll agree that an RPG is not necessary to prevent your house being broekn into, in fact its just downright stupid.
So measure the apropos of the weapon involved by the intention of the principle, not the other way round. Is the PRINCIPLE the same?
Now, as im not American im not sure exactly how the First Amendment prohibits and permits the use of/ creation of finger licking good USA porn, but ill warrant that youll find it most productive to look at the principle intention of the founding fathers, rather than the amount of imps, dogs and facials contained in the any particular piece of porn.
My point is solely that you can't argue one and deny the other.
But in the case of the rpg I don't think the founding fathers intended something like that, or personal ownerships of tanks for instance, because they would have included cannon in the constitution.
In any case I think that the founding fathers would have been more comfortable with the idea of assault weapons than they would be with any porn. I am not arguing against pornography, although I don't personally think it is "moral" I don't really pass judgment on people as long as they don't hurt others in the collection or dissemination of porn.
The last paragraph cracked me up by the way.
I don't know that the founding fathers would want ordinary citizens to have assalut rifles. An assalut rifle is a tool of war and should be left on the battlefield.Look all a person needs to defend himself from the average burglar,mugger or even rapist is either a handgun,shotgun or rifle.Anything else should be left to the military.And I say this as a proud owner of a .44 Desert Eagle.
Pornography doesn't kill people.
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