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COMMENTS:
Envy.
Greed has it's down side, but it's also a great productive force. Most of our accomplishments in one way or another can be traced back to this (isn't it greedy to work hard to earn more money, beyond what you need to live, or to invent the next best thing since sliced bread, or really do anything for yourself above and beyond what you really need).
Whereas envy has few upsides. Mostly it leads to theft, hatred, and attempts to tear down everything you want but can't get own your own.
Greed produces while envy steals. No contest.
Greed is NOT good, contrary to movies like 'Wall Street'.
Greed sets man against man in the pursuit of a dream that few are equipped to cope with.
Only the few get rich, but its the invisible promise of the dream that compels people to steal, rob and cheat their way to the top.
Envy only exists when the many are deprived of what is rightfully theirs, their birthright, the right to live without fear, fear of hunger, homelessness and war.
When these are stolen from them by the rich elite, envy sets in.
This is an excellent ballot. Both of you have made good points.
I would say that envy is the more destructive. While greed may be productive (for the economy) it is almost always envy that drives this greed. The most greedy and/or wealthy almost always want more. This is envy. They want more than the other guy and rarely if ever let up. Look at Bill Gates for example.
Neither can exist without the other, they're too close to pick one apart from the other.
They're both a pitiful, pitiful shame.
by Jyl on Sat May 06, 06 8:48pm
[+]
Either way seems to have the good side of stirring up productivity and the bad side of turning man against man and hurting each other.
Steel: so there are absolutely no rich or middle class people who feel envy? No one, except the extremely poor, who is upset because they want something belonging to someone else that they can't have? Not a single person, except the poor, who only want food, housing, etc?
I find that statement to be more than a little ridiculous.
And I suspect that even among the poor there are those who feel angry that they can't have a great deal of luxuries that the rich possess that they don't particularly need, they just want them because someone else has them.
And steel: what motive do you suppose built everything you see around you? Did bill gates build the first computer for the good of humanity, or to make money? Was the internet willed in to being by the generosity of community minded citizens, or was it built by people seeking to make a profit (hint: look at the ads on the front page of this site while you ponder that question).
So, were you able to post this ballot, and other ballots, because of the productive force of human generosity or human selfishness?
And before someone steps in and says 'well technically bill gates didn't build the first computer, it was . . . ', I'd just like to say, I don't care. It's not relevent, it was an analogy not a history lesson, but I'm sure someone will point this out.
You are absolutely correct in one point Herzog... you don't care, and its unlikely you ever will while you still live a life of privilege
You talk about the middle classes as is they are an endangered species, but miss the fundamental question entirely.
You say that greed pushed forward advancement, perhaps, but it may not occur to you that people do things for its own sake, because it is in a human nature to innovate.
Its not always for profit, but to further human understanding.
The guy who created Linux for instance, did it because he wanted an open source operating system.
Most people become doctors and nurses because its a vocation, because they wish to heal other human being, it happens that doctors make a good living, but many do it because of the calling.
You see, some people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, many economists don't understand anything more than the balance sheet.
Envy is the mental process that precedes greed. Same roots; ugly plant.
Steel: answer my questions please. Do you really believe only the poor feel envy, and then only for the things they need, nothing more.
And do you believe the generosity has led to greater productivity throughout history than greed.
PS: most say they're doing it for the greater good on their application, and if anyone asks, but I've known plenty of pre-meds, and let's just say the money isn't an irrelevent factor. How many doctors do you think we'd have if they were paid minimum wage?
Greed knows no boundries, no morality; has no limit on depravity or evil.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10(KJV)
But, of course, Fundamentalist Christians don't accept THAT part of the Bible. Only the part about homosexuality being an abomination.
((lol... ok, that's a hard 3))
I answered the question Herzog, Im afraid I'm not going to play your game of avoidance.
You need a serious reality check, so perhaps when you start working for a living and find just how irrelevant the company you work for values you as they downsize you, you will taste the reality of life.
You never once answered my questions, then you accuse me of 'avoidance'.
Project much?
Though I might be led to say that the politics of envy can contribute to the politics of greed. Envy in someone or a group of someones of what those richer than themselves have might drive those initial someones to greed, and the politics thereof.
The envious are usually greedy and vice versa.
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