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COMMENTS:
Careful Herz, you are coming suspiciously close to criticising America for its history!
It depends on the restriction of rights which were included in detaining them. To simply say the internment camps in the 40s were worse would be to neglect the whole point.
What human rights abuses occurred in the 40s camps? It's clear that many have occurred in Gitmo.
CT: so you have no problem with gitmo in general, just the possibility that someone, somewhere may have had a naked picture taken of him?
Arresting these americans because they had japanese blood and detaining them was by itself a human rights abuse wouldn't you say? Or is it ok to arrest women and children for their skin color and hold them for years with the full knowledge that they have done nothing wrong?
For instance: pretend bush ordered all american citizens of arab descent rounded up in to camps where they were treated fairly well, no beatings or anything like that, but they were detained their property taken and they were to be held until the end of the war on terror. How would you feel about that?
Lil: it's weird, but all the self-hating enlightened liberal americans who love to criticize the US, for some reason, won't go near this period.
Possibly because one of their enlightened liberal socialist presidents that they adore was responsible for all this?
By "human rights abuses" I'm not referring to simply locking them up but what is done with them while being locked up.
Both shame a civilised nation, it was interesting that those of German extraction weren't rounded up.
However, we have to look at how the world has evolved from 60 years ago.
As far as I am aware, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is over.
Surely these 'criminals' should be brought before a court or at the very least charged with a crime.
I do have a question.... why do liberals have to be automatically 'self hating' is looking for justice such an anethema to right wing sensibilities?
No one has managed to vote yet, I wonder why?
Can't vote as choices are too restrictive, so chose to put both.
Its like saying who is worse, Ghengis Khan or Attila the Hun.
The US has apologized for the Japanese internment camps of WW2. Which is one of the biggest reasons that the people in America with a conscience are so perplexed by our nations hypocrisy over the secret prisons where people are kept without due process of law. No one has proven anyone in Guantanamo bay has committed any crime whatsoever and the fact that they are not given trials leads me to believe that the government is afraid they can’t prove any of them have committed a crime.
Steel: so you can't decide between rounding up 100 men who are at the very least suspected of committing crimes with rounding up 140,000 men, women and children, who everyone knew were completely innocent?
I think that's a pretty easy choice.
But of course one was done by bush, so that makes it worse, and one was done by a socialist, so that makes it ok.
CT: you don't see rounding them up in the first place as a human rights abuse? What about in my example, rounding up all the arabs in the US, would that be a human rights abuse?
You know that they are guilty for a fact Herzog?
Hey, let's not bother charging them or finding them guilty, lets just take them out and shoot them.
As far as I am aware FDR was not a socialist but an opportunist who saw the mess Hoover had made of the country and tried to put it right.
I can understand that soup kitchens and dust bowls bring a nostalgic tear to your eye, but I think many who suffered through it may disagree.
I think its important to take into account the evolution of human rights since the first half of the century. I dont think human rights crimes can necesaarily be compared in absolute terms, the relative state of human rights must be taken into acocunt to truly place a moral judgement on two chronologically seperate events.
For instance, it would have been perfectly acceptable for police to use "active" interrogation tactics a hundred or even 60 years ago, whereas nowadays it is judged as contravening human rights laws as well as accepted standards of conduct.
'You know that they are guilty for a fact Herzog?'
'who are at the very least suspected of committing crimes'
' Hey, let's not bother charging them or finding them guilty, lets just take them out and shoot them.'
No, that approach is so downright . . . socialist.
' As far as I am aware FDR was not a socialist but an opportunist who saw the mess Hoover had made of the country and tried to put it right.'
He singlehandly created the welfare state. He was a socialist, perhaps not as extreme as you'd like (gulags, no private ownership of property, forced economic equality at bayonetpoint, etc) but a socialist nonetheless.
' I can understand that soup kitchens and dust bowls bring a nostalgic tear to your eye, but I think many who suffered through it may disagree'
Gibberish.
Socialism in no way means gulags!
Who fills your head with such nonsense?
Best go find your parents, it must be about time to collect your allowance.
^Resorted to insults. Lost the argument.
Game over.
The intentment was worse, definately. But they don't make the Gitmo any better. The concentration camps were worse because they were done on that big of a scale. Even though individually they aren't as bad as the Gitmo. For example, I'd rather be in that concentration camp than the Gitmo even though locking 100s of thousands up is worse than several hundred @ gitmo. It's like saying "Which is worse, the Holocaust or 9-11." So, because of the numbers the intentment was worse.
"What human rights abuses occurred in the 40s camps?"
There wasn't any torture or killings but the condition that these prisoners were held in were very poor. The housing was shitty, I can imagine the food wasn't good, there was no freedom. IMO, detaining people of their individual freedoms can be just as bad as torture (to some people).
"it was interesting that those of German extraction weren't rounded up."
Yes, Germans were rounded up as well. Look up the history of the Manzanar war relocation center.
Has a state of emergency been declared in current-day America that necessitates the incarceration of foreign nationals?
Answer: no.
So of course Guantanamo Bay is worse - in terms of legality, it would better be compared to Stalin's Gulags.
While both were inexcusable, the general concept of the WW2 camps was worse, IMO, because they involved American citizens.
PS: herz ... 'self-hating?'
Trying to equate actions by wrong-headed government officials with teh country and our national identity is an exercise in deceit which merely tries to stifle dissent. I reject that silly label.
wow it's cute when empty people bitch at Everyone but hz for name-calling and put-downs :p
by Jyl on Wed May 31, 06 3:35pm
[+]
what the hell is Gitmo?
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