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COMMENTS:
Of course many people seem afraid to admit this. I don't know why, but for some reason it's ok to stereotype all white men as serial killers, racists, and bigots, but it's not ok to point out that the majority of terrorists are muslims (and arab at that).
Anyone know why it is taboo to mention this fact?
Oh but of course religion is a factor that and well sheer hatred towards the white, to think otherwise would be ridiculous.
Nooooo Herzog! This ballot will merely give the lefties an excuse to delay answering on ballot #95435, where they were at the very brink of having to admit that racial profiling is a good idea!
Now they will just come onto this ballot and accuse you of making "spurious" associations and of being a racist etc etc blah blah blah.
We must make them UN-learn political correctness one example at a time, until they are rehabilitated into sensible, logical people again.
You cant rush these things!
Religion is a factor. However we need to determine between Islam extremists and moderate Muslims like some users on this site.
Islam extremists have declared war on our way of life yes but that includes moderate Muslims. Muslims did die on 911 after all. If it was Islam vs the west those Muslims would have been warned.
Tell me does this mean Christianity was the cause of the dark ages where innocent women were burnt at the stake as “witches” or “heretics” of course not because some Christians were killed to. The leaders were just using religion as an excuse to murder innocent people. It’s the same with Islam now.
by seon on Wed Jun 07, 06 5:30pm
[+]
Rather than propagate some sort of anti-Muslim dogma, perhaps we should attempt to untangle this mess right back at its roots?
For example, it would be interesting to know specifically why many Arab Muslims hate the West so much nowadays.
This is, after all, quite a recent development. With the exception of historical military conflicts such as the Crusades and local uprisings such as the Sudanese Mahdiya, which in any case wasn't a conflict between Islam and the West per se, this situation has only existed since the establishment of the Israeli state.
And it's not even accurate to say that Arabs just hate Jews, since Jews lived peacefully alongside Arabs in Palestine before 1947.
Religion, or the perversion thereof, is the fastest known recruiting tool. The young and the old are both moved by its call.
it all depends on where you are looking from.
If you had been born in a different country within a different religion your question might be "how come all Christians believe they have a right to invade non Christian countries and impose their will upon believers of Islam"?
ah yes... no Israel and ALL the problems of corrupt, undemocratic, theocracies, dictatorships, countries run like fiefdoms go away. The problems were there all along. The middle east was hardly a land of milk and honey before the state of Israel was established in 1948. It was full of the same warring, backward governments, tribes, etc. Oil just gave the area more money and attention.
"Arabs just hate Jews, since Jews lived peacefully alongside Arabs in Palestine before 1947."
Yes, of course. That is why dhimmitude existed. The horrible way Jews have been treated by Arabs throughout history is well documented. While at times it was better than how Jews were treated in Europe.... That is hardly saying anything. They certainly weren't treated well when they refused to accept muhammad as their prophet. His followers slaughtered them and took the women and children for themselves.
It is always interesting how people just repeat something they hear without ever doing some historical research.
anyone who denies or tries to cover up this fact is just misguided. i've noticed that those who deny the fact that most are muslim, are merely spewing rhetoric. they, and there are quite a few on this site, want to come across as these calm, rational and open minded people. in reality, they are delustional. radical islam has come right out and stated that they are at war with the entire non-muslim world. how much more clear can they be? some people want to deny or gloss over this fact because they want to convince themselves, and others, that they are educated and enlightened -- in reality, they are blind to fact. if the masterminds behind terrorist acts come right out and declare that they want the world to be islamic, i think that pretty much speaks to their mission and motvation. if i were a gay terrorist and i publicly stated "i am waging a war against the non-gay world and i want to make the world gay" how much more evidence would you need?
Fiddle there’s no denying the Jews have been treated horribly in the past but does that give them a right to treat Arab’s that way? I always thought two wrongs don’t make a right.
by seon on Wed Jun 07, 06 6:51pm
[+]
but Kev
consider all those Christian missionaries whose aim in life is to convert as many people as they can to their regligion.
And what about that guy, Pat Robinson I think his name was, who said Chavez should be "taken out."
Another thing I find difficult to reconcile with is those people who call themselves Christians but focus on the Old Testament, the eye for an eye and blood and thunder brigade, those aren't the teachings of Christ, (who Christians are named as being followers of) he said treat all others as you would like to be treated and turn the other cheek, and how can you see to remove a splinter from your neighbour's eye when you have a bloody great lump of wood in your own (paraphrased yes, but the general meaning is there)
There is no denying that at the present time, there is a plethora of terrorism commintted in the name of Islam.
I'm not sure I have ever heard of anyone denying this fact (no doubt someone will correct me) it has been my task to point out that the point of these types of ballot isn't to make a point about terrorism, but to push a more insidious agenda.
No doubt I will have the usual suspects crying foul and calling me an apologist or politically correct, but I feel quite strongly on the issue of blackening a whole group of people based on the actions of a few insane idiots.
Im of Irish extraction and have an Irish surname, does this automatically mean Im a supporter of the IRA and of radical Catholicism?
There was a time here in the UK during the 1970s, that having an irish surname made for an uncomfortable time.
There was a phrase that summed it up, 'Innocent until proven Irish'.
Or go back to the 1950s, where signs outside boarding houses read:
No Blacks
No Irish
No Dogs
As you can imagine, the sort of vitrolic rhetoric thrown at innocent muslims, leaves me very uncomfortable indeed.
Religion has always been a major issue in terrorism herzog. Whats more islam was never a terrorist threat until it became so to america. Another lame herzog ballot.
Most people (whether they admit it or not) in countries where Muslim terrorists have attacked are going to at least cast a cautious eye towards Muslims in their country. Of course many will deny this. When terrorist attacks continue - as they have, people start to question whether the religion of Islam is a significant factor. It isn't necessarily racism or bigotry. It is trying to understand why people are doing these horrible things. The Germans did horrible things under Hitler, that didn't make all Germans bad people. However, I'm sure to people of the time that it was a no-brainer to question whether Nazi ideology was the major problem... oh wait... we can't question whether a ideology might be causing significant problems. Got to be too PC...
^ ye gods FF even for you that was lame. How do you dare to attempt to connect Islam with Nazi'sm. Thats one of your better ones that.
It is a No brainer FF to suggest that Bushist ideology may be the major problem.
Herzog. That's like asking:
If race isn't a major factor in athletics, why are there so few white basketball players?
OR
If race isn't a major factor in politics then why are there so few black politicians?
OR
If we're all equal, then how is it that most "hate crimes" are commited against blacks?
OR
If religion isn't a major factor in pedophilia then why are there so few non-Catholic child molesting preists?
My point is that you need more than biased demographics to prove something.
Herzog, it just happens to be a coincedence. I don't think that religion is a problem. I think that if the middle east was Christian and it went through the same exact thing as Islamic middle east has gone through in the past 50 years that nothing would be different. Now, if you were to take away all of the dictatorships, unstable society, and etc...then a peaceful middle east muslim or not would prevail.
And most of the problems that the middle east went through in the past 50 or so years had western roots. The Shah (which resulted in the Islamic Rep. of Iran), Saddam, the Taliban all became what they became because of western intervention.
I apologize for the load of comments.
In conclusion I don't think that religion is the problem. I think that the violent, unstable history of the middle east is to blame. Tell me herzog, if Islam is to blame (and not corruption, unstable society) then how do you explain the loads of militants and guerrilas in central America. You can easily compare Central America to the middle east. Both society are fu*** up. The government is nothing but a bunch of arrogant warlords and both regions have the same problems. Just look at the daily news of central American nations. You'll find that daily killings aren't unique to the middle east alone.
' If race isn't a major factor in athletics, why are there so few white basketball players? '
Clearly racism, otherwise whites would represent about 70% of all basketball players. Right affirmative action proponents?
' If race isn't a major factor in politics then why are there so few black politicians?'
Because democrats refuse to actually appoint minorities to any high positions in government?
' If we're all equal, then how is it that most "hate crimes" are commited against blacks'
Because hate crimes committed by blacks and other minorities against whites aren't considered hate crimes at all and are dismissed out of hand.
I'm sure we'd have alot of black speeders as a percentage if whites were all let off the hook for speeding.
'If religion isn't a major factor in pedophilia then why are there so few non-Catholic child molesting preists?'
Because priests are mostly catholic.
'My point is that you need more than biased demographics to prove something.'
How exactly are the demographics biased? Were the 911 hijackers buddhists? Was the USS cole hit by radical insurance salesmen? Was the taliban a group of folk singers? Or were they all muslims?
'Tell me herzog, if Islam is to blame (and not corruption, unstable society) then how do you explain the loads of militants and guerrilas in central America. You can easily compare Central America to the middle east. Both society are fu*** up. The government is nothing but a bunch of arrogant warlords and both regions have the same problems. Just look at the daily news of central American nations. You'll find that daily killings aren't unique to the middle east alone.'
There's a difference between simple rebellion and terrorism.
So far terrorism is largely a muslim activity.
Of course there are non-muslim terrorists, but by and large there are far more muslim terrorists than there ought to be given their population size.
And it's not like muslims are the only ones who have had a rough time, join the fucking club, they're just the only ones who deem it necessary to blow themselves up to kill a bunch of women and children in response to the slightest insult.
lil_ape: I doubt they'd ever admit it.
Blaming white males for all the worlds problems and excusing minorities for any crime they committ is too deeply ingrained in their ideology, such that if they were able to admit that some things aren't white male (americans) faults and that maybe minorities are responsible for their own actions they would not be the far leftwing ideological idiots they are.
That sort of common sense would prevent them from having the ideology they do. So it's a catch22, sort of. Anyone capable of giving up their ridiculous PC mantra in favor of logic and reason has already done so, which means it's impossible to convince the PC users otherwise because if they were open to logic and reason they wouldn't believe what they believe.
Oh indeed religion is a factor.
What is important to note is the politicisation of religion. Political Islam has been the most significant POLITICAL ideology to have emerged (Islamic theocracy has existed in the past, but never has it had been carved into such clear international agendas). The politicisation of Islam, has for the most part been driven by the extremist Wahhabist branch.
It is not sufficient to just imply they were all 'Muslim' (it certainly helps, but more detail is useful). They were all driven by the agendas of Political Islamism and by Wahhabism.
One might say that other religions have been politicised and have extreme elements as well. That is true. But from a global perspective, political Islamism has just been more influential, widespread, and active.
Indeed, I would go as far as to say that Poltical Islamism is the most influential anti-Western poltical ideology since the end of the Cold War. It outlines the West as the enemy, it offers a political structure alternate that is supposedly morally superior to the liberal West. It is about political ideology.
The religion itself is not the problem, but more so the polticisation of it, that is directly sparking global conflict.
I think religion plays a part, but I think the people teaching the religion are the main problem.
We've done nothing to stop the Wahabist schools and Madrassas - they are the real problem - the schools and the preachers. Why do we ignore Pakistan?
Religion has always been about the control of people and having power over them, and there is nothing more controlling than preaching backward/extreme texts - it demands utter devotion.
If every church in the UK or the U.S were the same as the good old Westboro Baptist church, then there would be a lot more hate and intolerance going around. It's all about what a preacher is selecting to preach, rather than the book itself.
Combine this with a culture and a society based around that religion and its backward laws, governed by more power crazed dictators and theocratic leaders who don't give a damn about their populations, and you will have a mix of hate, ignorance, intolerance and violence.
The West is an easy target for this hate and ignorance - sometime justifiably so, but most not.
*mostly
Militant Islam is a factor.
Are you still failing to grasp this?
Let me see if I can break it down ... yet again ...
If violence is fomenting in particular regions, due to a complex stew of geopolitical factors, but that region happens to have a fairly homogeneous religious demographic, then naturally that religion will be more represented. That doesn't mean the religion is a causitive factor.
That would be like observing that since the vast majority of convicted felons in the US are Christian that Christianity brews criminal behaviour.
In the USA, we do not give our children coloring books slanted toward killing certain groups, now, do we.
Cathexis- no, I must disagree. Political Islam is certainly a factor. It has certainly flourished and it certainly has an influence and does indeed encourage a clash with the West.
This is made evident with the rise in popularity of groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood, which have outlined POLITICAL motives and goals which are anti-Western.
Many terrorist organisations declare that they are Political Wahhabist Islamists, and many terrorists explicitly use the words 'in the name of Islam...'
I cannot grasp at the idea of Islam not being a factor. Whether or not Islam is being used justly or unjustly by such groups and individuals is completely beside the point, as it is still being used nonetheless.
Islam is being used and abused by certain elements to meet certain political agenda. And as such the religion can operate successfully as an agent for their political goals and aspirations.
Cathexist- "That would be like observing that since the vast majority of convicted felons in the US are Christian that Christianity brews criminal behaviour."
- No it wouldn't. Unless those groups and individuals claimed it to be so, as so many individuals have regarding Islam and terrorism.
Islam and terrorism can be linked in many many circumstances.
But I must agree that there are circumstances in which a Muslim launches a terrorist attack, without even thinking of religion. I am not trying to make blanket statements covering every single circumstance as to impy that Islam is always the factor. In some cases it isn't. But in a lot, it certainly is.
Cath: so only the middle east is poor, oppressed and has an axe to grind? No other region on the planet meets those prerequisites?
The ballotmaker's assertion is pure bullshit. According to the MIPT Terrorism Database, in 2004 (the most recent year for which data is available)35% of terrorist attacks were acts of religious terrorism. And that figure includes all religions, so the figures for Muslim terrorism is even less.
"But the vast majority (and far out of proportion to their population) of terrorists are muslim (sic)," is just more prejudiced nonsense from the neo-con big lie machine.
"Because democrats refuse to actually appoint minorities to any high positions in government?"
I wasn't talking about high government positions. I was talking about politicians in general. But way to pull a red herring. And way to find a reason to blame democrats again.
"Because priests are mostly catholic."
Not true at all. There are Baptist preists, Episcopalian, Televangelists, etc... But we NEVER hear about them molesting anyones 6 year old.
"There's a difference between simple rebellion and terrorism."
Herzog, terrorism is rebellion. Just an unethical one. If you consider the kidnapping of politicians, the killing of uncooperative civilians a "simple rebellion" then there's something wrong with you.
"How exactly are the demographics biased?"
Because they don't take any of the Christian insurgencies AKA "missionaries" that take place in India and parts of Africa. And yes, they kill 10s of thousands of civilians every 10-20 years. Research it.
"In the USA, we do not give our children coloring books slanted toward killing certain groups, now, do we."
Right, the politicians do that for you.
"According to the MIPT Terrorism Database, in 2004 (the most recent year for which data is available)35% of terrorist attacks were acts of religious terrorism."
So ONLY 35% of ALL terrorism is religion related. But no cranky! Fox News shows muslims blowing things up all the time. Your statistic can't be true.
oh, did something happen to the kkk, ira, and skinheads when i wasn't looking?
en. wikipedia. org/ wiki/ Terrorist_groups
most so-called islamic terrorist groups (who are neither islamic nor terrorist) are tiny organisations, little groups of nutcases, not organised at all.
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