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COMMENTS:
The Religious Right seems to have a persecution complex, IMO; believing that any refusal to accept their religious beliefs as transcendent and dominant are eliminationist persecution.
I believe they have drugs that can help that condition.
But you didn't address the question Cathexis. Do you or do you not believe that it is unjust to make one religion or two, in this case, remove their symbols, but not all?
So do you? If you make one remove the symbols, then why not all? If a Cross offends someone and it is removed, what if a Masonic symbol offends someone, or a Muslim one, or a Wiccan one? So?? Where do you stand on the issue? I think you did everything but answer it.
And so you know Cathexis, your supposed answer directly offends me. And yes, I mean that. You have actually succeeded in not just offending me, but making me angry as well. I suggest you stop being so jaded and one-sided.
Hey cathexis are you a bigot? Is every body that does not agree with you somehow not as superior as you are? If you answer ye you are being just as you claim the Christians are being. When in fact we at least I do not feel that way.
Also I do not have a persecution complex. I am a realist; it's going to happen no matter what.
I am not mad, but like patch said you never addressed the question.
So if why is the ACLU (a Muslim organization)attacking these two religions only and is it right. If you don't think that is the case see ballot #96886
I'm not for secularism per se, I'm more for individualism. Secularism can be pushed too far. The colour green is a symbol of Islam, should that be bannned? The lotus flower symbolises Buddhism, should that image be scandalous?
I'm more for individualism than 'secularism'. If a Muslim girl wants to wear her headscarf- let her. If a Sikh wants to wear a turban- let them. If a Christian wants to pray- let them. If an atheist thinks its all nonsense and wants nothing to do with it- let them. Why force any one single standard on all people anyway? Let each individual be what they are then the world will be in order.
patch: The site ate my first post. What you read is my second post. Don't know whathappened to it ...
I'll try this again ...
First, w eneed to clarify that the problematic religious symbolism comes only when it is done by a government institution. Not 'any use of it' as seems to be implied.
In that context -- yes ... It applies to ANY symbols used in a religious context. NOT just Judeo- Christian.
patch: I can see where reading just my follow-up comment would be misleading. If the first (long) comment that specifically addressed the issue had gone up first, I believe it would have been seen in the light it was meant to be.
Soc: Agreed.
That is why I wanted to underscore the scope of the argument. Too many confuse 'all religious context' and 'government sponsored religious context.' To me, that makes a huge difference.
Cathexis has developed a severe mental condition.
If he/she is White, he/she can't be right.
If it's about the United States, he assumes we're guilty, no matter what and if its legitimately not about America, he makes it about us and does so always putting us in a bad light (I think he's wound too tight).
If its about Religion, Christian is always wrong in his views and I guess thats because he never knelt in the Pews :)
Basically Cathexis ALWAYS assumes the worst about White, Chritian Americans (and he is particularly delighted if that White, Christian American is a male)
I think he was abused by one when he was a kid. Were you Cathexis?
patch: (sigh)
I do not believe that White, Christian Americans are, by definition, wrong.
However, I am not going to blind myself to racism, pseudo-Christain extremists, or Nationalists, either.
If you honestly read what I write, you'll see I always talk about specifics. I don't believe I am in the habit of generalization to entire groups.
The Religious Right ... yes. But I do not believe they are real Christians -- merely using a decent religion as cover.
There is a very visible minority in each of the categories you cite that act to undermine the groups as a whole.
If I see injustice, or something wrong, I am not going to stay silent merely because they claim membership in a larger group.
I don't believe you Cathexis. No one sees it the way you do. Then maybe you need to think about how you're coming across. Sorry, but thats how it appearss.
cathexis why should the Government not allow religious symbols? Our whole country was started on Religion its constitution protects and magnifies religion so why can't it reflect what it stands for. That would be like you trying to stand for liberalism but not be allowed to let it reflect in your being.
To take away the symbols is the same as saying this country hates and does not want diversity of religion but only what is mandated by the Government yes the very thing that you are trying to avoid is what is taking place. The ACLU (A MUSLIM ORGANIZATION) has effectively taken our freedom of religion away and has made it impossible for the government to reflect what it Stands for.
Atheism is NOT a religion. You are also calling other things such as money a religion. This is more poetic than literal.
We aren't 'attacking' religion because we are bigots. We are 'attacking' religion because IT is full of bigotry. We are trying to protect ourselves against the conservative nut jobs and the religious mania they promote. We are almost on the brink of a religious world war because of these idiots and their sheepish foundation. Because people believe in an invisible man who was so bored with being perfect that he created a bunch of beings to demand love and obedience from. A man who created you the way you are knowing that you will sin and, get this, pay infinitely for a finite crime.
We want the separation of church and state. We don't want to suffer through the laws that only you believe in. We want freedom from your bainwashed, ranting overlords.
We are all born athiests, then some of our parents abuse us by force feeding us jesus during our formative years. Every time you question your god you get that uncomfortable feeling in you stomach, like god is reading your mind. Its time to give up the nursery rhymes and tip- toe into reality where things can be measured and tested. Where we don't blow eachother up for .....uhhhh....
Pig_man go the dictionary and see in line 3 it says Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty. When you are daily seeking after something it is religious yes the most common use is for people that believe in a God but when you have a strict desire for something it becomes your God. So yes atheism is a religion they are religiously seeking their belief above all else thus making it a religion. Like it or not that just they way the cookie crumbles just to put it into perspective gambling is a religion to some people they are religiously chasing the pot of gold at the end of the table.
Either keep them all or get rid of them all. Don't pick and choose. Either we allow them all or reject all point blank.
I say if you want to have religion in your life then do it. If not then don't have it in your life but do not take away other peoples rights of a religion, even if you hate religion or don't like it.
I'm really having a hard time understanding you cathexis. You seem to be very judgmental in saying: "Religious Right ... yes. But I do not believe they are real Christians"
Really? While I may not agree with them on everything, I have friends and family members who would qualify as the "religious right". They are devout Christians and practice their beliefs. They aren't hateful bigots like leftists like to paint them as being.
FF: I have family who are in the RR, as well.
Judgmental? Perhaps ... but I believe my perceptions of the overtly political RR and its spokespeople accurately.
Well then, you should limit your harsh comments to the spokespeople you detest rather than categorizing a whole group as "not real Christians".
I fully agree with Cathexis, because it's the simple truth you lying full of shit neo-cons. You animals are too stupid to see that he is right, the religious right is full of hate and resent of others who do not conform to their religous ways. I take full pleasure in making you ass wipes angry because I know you will retaliate in some way. Your miniscule intellects can't come up with any viable arguments, the only thing you people can do is come up with slander to sully your opponents with, nothing but propaganda and lies.
Cathexis and blanket Dear sir from what I can see so far it looks like you expect others to hold to a higher way of life than what you are willing to do. You make enormous claims of superiority, infidelity, bigotry, hatred and belittlement against the Christians. Yet you yourself broadcast and emanate the very traits that you hate in Christians and other Religious people.
Here is something to keep in mind my grandfather used to tell me that yea you may be able to find all kinds of crap and dirt from inside the bucket but its always easier to clean it up from outside, that way you don’t get as dirty. In other words you can’t help or tell a smoker that he needs to quit if you are not willing to quit yourself.
That goes with anything please smokers don’t get mad I used to be one to and it always bugged me when there were those that would tell me I had t quit smoking when they had cigarette in their mouth or a pack in their pocket. Either way point made so before you go to knocking look to see how you’re walking
Yes, I am an ultra liberal and am not afraid of being ostracized and/or intimidated by brainless conservatives just because I view things differently than they do. My response was synthesized in a parallel dimension with loop quantization, a rigorous framework for nonperturbative quantization of diffeomorphism invariant gauge theory.
Compressed down to a singularity.
In case you wanted to know Trebor.
Like fivenotes said, either keep all religious symbols, or disallow all religious symbols (in the government).
I realise you Yanks don't have sense of humour, so I'd like to point out.........
IT'S A JOKE!
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