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COMMENTS:
Probably Islamic extremist who are fighting to take back Kashmir from India.The Pakistanis pretend like they are trying to crackdown on Islamic extremist but I bet they secretly support these groups inorder to attack India without bearing any of the responsibility.
Probably some Pakistani group involved in the Kasmir conflict. But I hesitate to say "Pakistan."
And, who knows where they will strike next?!
Cathexis- Do you think that religion is a factor in the Kashmir conflict? I believe it is.
As for who did it, I will not make a guess.
Soc: I believe that focusing on religion is incredibly misleading.
The fighting in thge mid-east has to do with Iraq. The bombings in India are very likely due to Kashmir separatists.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GROUP!
By fixating on 'muslim extremists,' we completely miss the boat on the reality of the situation and make ourselves believe we are fighting some great, homogeneous, united enemy all working towards the same goal and against the same targets.
I cannot stress this enough: We. Are. Not.
I'm leading towards Corrupt's prediction.
Cathexis- The conflict in Iraq and the conflict in Kashmir are indeed separate circumstances. But religion is of signifance to both conflicts to varying extents. This does not mean that they are homogenous. Two different groups can be influenced by one factor to varying extents, yet have no formal alliance. For example, in the Cold War, the Cuba and Yugoslavia were both influenced, but they did not have a homogenous identity at all. One does not have to be 'the same group' to be influenced by similar factors. For you to assume that two groups influenced by similar factors to varying degrees equates to some kind of a union is wrong. Two groups can be influenced by similar factors/ideologies/identities and not be a unitary group at all.
Cathexis- so, do you think that religion is a factor in the Kashmir conflict or not?
Soc: I'll answer the same as I have every other time you have asked me a variation of this question -- I believe it is a factor. I do not believe it is a primary factor.
I believe the Iraq and Kashmir conflicts, to be specific, to be almost completely unrelated.
The problem is, and always has been, geopolitics -- resisting a foreign occupation in Iraq, and fighting over contested land in Kashmir. THOSE are the primary things that we should be focusing on -- not extraneous commonalities.
Cathexis- When Sunnis and Shi'ia launch attacks on one another, religion is not a primary factor?
And if Kashmir had never been populated by Muslims, and had instead been populated by... let's say Jains, Pakistan would still be claiming Kashmir?
Indeed, Islam IS one of the major geopolitical factors in both. Especially Kashmir. Demography IS geopolitics.
I think its fair to say
by ABC on Wed Jul 12, 06 8:50am
[+]
Soc: When Sunnis and Shi'ia launch attacks on one another, I agree that (in this specific example), religion is, indeed, a primary factor.
If Kashmir had never been populated by Muslims, and had instead been populated by some other group -- I believe that as longa s Pakistan and India were separated as countries, the Kashmir conflict would be ongoing. (Interesting that you question the Pakistani claim to Kashmir and not the Indian's. Me ... I have no idea who is right or wrong or how much.)
I do agree, Soc, that Islam IS one of the geopolitical factors in both. But I submit that by making such a statement, one implies/ assumes a commonality that I do not believe exists. Further, such assumptions will hamper our vision on what we are fighting.
As for 'Demography IS geopolitics' -- it is my belief that you seek to simplify a very complex set of circumstances.
And as Einstein said "Make everything as simple as possible ... but not simpler."
Cathexis- No, I doubt that Pakistan would be making claims to Kashmir if it were not Muslim. Pakistan considers itself to be a Muslim country. The very division of Pakistan from India was based on demographics of religion. It is not undealistic to recognise that. A great idealist like Gandhi recognised that it was based on religion, which is why he opposed the separation of Pakistan in the first place. The issue at hand is religion concerning Kashmir.
"Interesting that you question the Pakistani claim to Kashmir and not the Indian's. Me ... I have no idea who is right or wrong or how much.)"
- Well that's simple, there is not militant movement in Pakistani administered Kashmir to reunite with India, whereas there is a movement in Indian administered Kashmir to unite with Pakistan.
"As for 'Demography IS geopolitics' -- it is my belief that you seek to simplify a very complex set of circumstances." - you're right, it is not difficult to see the importance of demographics in geopolitics.
can any one point to a christian or any religiose group that kills more innocents than muslims and you farleftist please stay in this century or atleast the last 50 years
pakistan and kashmir were both part of india at one time and kashmir still is kinda
That's a no-brainer: people who hate freedom.
Just ask George.
This same debate is going on in ballot #97309, so I'll suggest we take this specific thread solely to that ballot.
You can't really say for sure, but it appears likely that is Islamic extremists. That or perhaps less likely Sikh terrorists.
I made ballot #97309, because I felt that the issue of whether Kashmiri separatists are influnced by religion as a factor in their nationalism was going of on a tangent and was irrelevant to the question of this ballot.
^ and I didn't want this ballot to be sent of on a tangent.
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