COMMENTS:
I would imagine it would depend on who this person is.
if this person is a total looney that you met on the street, than smart thing to do is to walk away, slowly.
if this person was someone you knew personally, I would set them aside and explain to them your point of view.
by LCD on Wed Jul 12, 06 2:22pm
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Depends on the person and their relationship to myself.
If I thought their theory was a genuine, well researched belief then I would accept their opinion and research it for myself.
If there were clear holes in their theory I would make it known.
If they were incapable of recognising holes, half truths and bias, my opinion of them would drop and I wouldn't let them continue to spread their theory unchallenged.
LCD sums it up best. WNC does too. :) Mostly some people go way too far. Their theories, which they shove on people as "fact" just get more and more complex and outlandish and are just virtually impossible. They have a mental illness. But, there are some people who are sane and super intelligent, like Ken_from_Dublin. Ken looks into matters and examines facts, so I tend to consider his position and know that he is not making stuff up. Some peope on here though are just nuts.
It depends, most of them don't work. If it is someone like seon (or libdem on 9/11), you can actually have a dialogue with him. As for the cut and paste types, debate is impossible. And sometimes it really does piss me off when it hits close to home. When you lost someone on 9/11 and nearly lost another or when you people with the tattooed numbers on them from the Nazi concentration camps. I have tried to respond factually, but with the cut and paste types it is pointless. I'll try to post the factual stuff for other users. Sorry, I can't resist mocking people that post truly idiotic stuff over and over. I can deal with people having legitimate disagreement, but when they do nothing but spam, it gets really old.
I really think some of these people are really stupid and/or have a mental illness. They persist they way a paranoid schizophrenic goes on and on about the chip the government implanted in their brain.
The cut and pasters often get their info from really strange sources including neo-Nazi and fascist sites. They make this place far less enjoyable than it could be.
" I really think some of these people are really stupid and/or have a mental illness"
I wouldn't go as far.
by LCD on Wed Jul 12, 06 4:00pm
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"Conspiracy theories",unfortunately this term has become a weapon,a slur utilized to put an oponent on the defensive and besmirch them at the same time.The utilizer of this tactic relies on the blind weight of a largely ignorant public to associate one argument with a seamingly irrational claim,person,... thereby attaching the stigma onto the intended oponent effectively stifling the nead for a real debate.These effective little slurs are miniature movements and revolts in themselves if you think about it.This is because the slurs effectively define the debate through the use of foregone conclusions which in reality are based on little more than popular concensus.How many "racist" ballots are there?How about "political correctness" ballots.These slurs are familiar and effective standbies for debaters that utilize them.Basically they serve as foregone conclusions.FE,if you acknowledge that race is real as well as the differences among us,expect to be labelled a "racist".It doesn't matter that you have a legitimate point,you are now a "racist" and your viewpoint is not to be associated with.
Who else observes this little mechanism for what it is?
I'm sure openminded people here can come up with plenty of bogus mainstream media conspiracy theories.This is because too many people take the news and history reported by CNN,FOX,NEOcon radio shows,major publishing companies,... on good faith.UNwarranted good faith mind you.The resulting blind support that exists there subsequently creates the conditions for the foregone conclusions necessary to create such slurs.This is how public opinion is *created* and their blind weight manipulated for a given interest group's agenda.
(...When you lost someone on 9/11 ...
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Jul 12, 2006 3:39pm)
Fiddle, what you just said there applies to an awful huge amount of people like me who you repeatedly karma attacked and insult and lie about everytime we question the Official 9-11 Conspiracy Theory. You even rated down one of my comments - TWICE - (by -5 each time) where I pointed this out. I didn't lose only ONE person on 9-11, I lost a whole lot of people. I watched my sister cry for months afterwards because she personally knew so many people as well who died in the WTC towers when they were demolished.
And there are lots of people just like me who are not going to buckle down to the intimidation and dishonest tactics of people like you.
I enjoy conspiracy theories. I don't accept virtually any of the standard ones as fact, but I love people who challenge the status quo. Plus, many great ideas come straight out of left field. If we create a rigid, judgemental culture, that automatically rejects anything that threatens preconceived notions of truth, then what are we, but secular fundamentalists?
Conspiracy away, I say.
Does the theory that the Iraq War is actually about oil qualify as a conspiracy theory?
Seriously fiddle,you're WAY out of control.Can you ever *just* disagree with somebody?Why must you PERSONALLY attack EVERYBODY who does not agree with you?Aside from disliking you I'm not looking to open old wounds.That said,again,seriously,ENOUGH with the relentless and unecessary personal attacks ... enough - karma bombing.
This is the ballot comment #1012057 which I referred to, which Fiddle rated down in one of his mass karma attacks without a care in the world about what he was rating down.
coldcircuit. You and your aliases post spam all over the place. You repeat the same comments on ballots. In fact you do them one right after another. You intentionally antagonize people. I watch you and your aliases come on one after another and post the same crap. Crap you cut and paste time and time again from prison planet, rense and from neo-Nazi websites. If you don't want negative karma then stop doing crap like that.
Robot, you and I disagree on almost everything. I disagree with a number of users on conspiracy stuff but they don't do what coldcircuit, meteor7, lovelynice and the rest of the aliases do. I get along quite well with seon for example. Just look on my public page. There is a legitimate exchange. Not a bunch of cut and paste bullsh*t over and over. I'm more than willing to debate with people that think for themselves.
Personally, coldcircuit I really doubt that was your personal experience. If it had you would resist antagonizing others who have suffered.
And I am quite sure you will get your alter ego aliases to vote up your choice.
And robot, if you want to defend someone who added a ballot choice that might get him investigated by the FBI, then be my guest.
hehe slam!
There's a Little tad of truth to a lot of them and that's what makes some of them so big and real to so many people.. carrying the dirty parts of big stories Way too far.. This is also what makes 'normal' people completely discount everything about those kinds of theories, the fact that people are making a joke of the Truth.
The Truth is somewhere in the middle, and trust me it'd hard for people on either end to believe :)
by Jyl on Wed Jul 12, 06 7:48pm
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(BE goes in there somewhere dammit)
by Jyl on Wed Jul 12, 06 7:49pm
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(If it had you would resist antagonizing others who have suffered.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Jul 12, 2006 7:25pm)
And you can go fuck yourself with a telephone pole, you assshole.
(him investigated by the FBI, then be my guest.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Jul 12, 2006 7:29pm)
Is intimidation your only method of argument, Fiddle?
1- The FBI has no jurisdiction outside the USA
2- Why are you carrying on as if the FBI would have any say in free speech at all, unless you are trying to push the attitudes of a fascist police state?
You still pushing the lies about me having aliases? Well, if I do, then why don't I just bump my own karma up a few hundred times to get over your last mass karma bombing? If I had lots of aliases, I could do that, couldn't I. You're simply spouting your bullshit, making up stories, and have nothing to support your bullshit either.
I have not other aliases. I have no doubt that you could see my IP address is a dynamic one, but how many people share it? Can you tell what operating systems they use? Can you tell what browsers they use? Do you have any idea about how many people use this system which I use?
You don't know the answer to any of these questions, do you?
It wouldn't be too hard, I suspect for a site administrator to check if the OS is the same, and what browsers are used. Maybe that's why you continue your lies about Blackcat06 and Tank_Girl and daisycutter, and whoever else you put on that long paranoid fantasy list of yours, but the site admin can easily check and have a good idea of who is who, and who is NOT.
In fiddles defense he has never rated me down, just debated with me. Maybe it really is because some people just cut and paste.
To answer the question I’d ask for evidence first. I don’t just believe in any old nonsense (like the holocaust never happened rubbish)
by seon on Wed Jul 12, 06 8:50pm
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The first thing I do is consider how plausible their ideas are. If the ideas seem highly implausible, then I probably won't hear the person out. However, if their ideas range from "implausible, but possible" to likely, I will hear the person out.
One thing I really can't stand though is when an individual puts forth a series of facts, ideas, or opinions--but never follows through by connecting those things together to support some sort of conclusion, and not a vague suggestion.
- The worst is when someone comes out with a single "fact" that is unverifiable, and then focuses so intently on the intellectual components of that 'fact' that they lose sight of everything else, including their point.
It's fine for people to believe that conspiracies exist. They do. But explaining that a conspiracy might exist isn't enough; you have to describe in no uncertain terms what your theory is.
Circuit. It is easy to change IPs. I can do it on my own computer. It doesn't take a brain surgeon. And as I have said on other ballots, if you aren't aliases you are obviously a group that works together to spam ballots, to cut and paste neo-Nazi crap, ultra right-wing Japanese nationalist crud, and never ending cut and paste nonsense about 9/11. Honestly, when I read some of the comments and choices you guys make I really wonder if you have a brain in your head. Example: meteor7 making a choice on a 9/11 ballot trying to compare the B-25 crash into the Empire state building with what happened on 9/11. Come on, use your brain. Plus, what you do is continue to spam nonsense. No matter what anyone posts, no matter how often they prove you wrong, no matter how diplomatic or patient, you have no desire to ever listen, to ever debate or anything. I like seon and others like Libdem who think there is a 9/11 conspiracy. I disagree with them, but they actually post legitimate comments and questions - not cut and paste nonsense that anyone with even a remote sense of logic or intelligence could see is bogus. If you change your ways and actually decide to debate instead of cut and paste nonsense, you will get along much better with everyone.
{No matter what anyone posts, no matter how often they prove you wrong, no matter how diplomatic or patient, you have no desire to ever listen, to ever debate or anything.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Jul 12, 2006 9:36pm}
That sounds like you are describing your own typical attitude and tactics. Perfectly. To a tee. Except you make all your attacks PERSONAL, and then apparently karma bomb large numbers of unrelated comments on unrelated ballots, then - as always - make false excuses about why.
By the way, as far as I can recall, Coldcircuit never posted any comments on any of the Holocaust ballots, nor my ballot about the Nanking Massacre. Not once. I don't recall ever seeing any posting by him on those ballots. Can you find the comments of his that you allege that he made?
The only comments that I myself made were factual. You might not like the facts, but they were (and remain as) facts. Neither were they (as you alleged in another of your lies) from any of those sites which you claimed they were from. You really do like to make unsupported allegations everywhere.
Most of them are TRUE shills. Do yer homework. Hahha!
Give them a chance. Let all listen and be willing to listen to the opinions and perspectives of others.
I don't know, some may have validity.
For instance-the explosion on the battleship Maine. I think that was a conspiracy designed to make a good excuse for going to war with Spain-our own imperialist interests.
Much like 9/11.
History is riddled with conspiracies, lies and hoxes. Some are valid and some are just plain nutball. 
I see what fiddle means. All I want is people to debate me on the facts, it must be very frustrating to try and prove someone wrong when all they do is copy and paste things and not even reply to your criticisms.
by seon on Thu Jul 13, 06 5:25pm
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"All I want is people to debate me on the facts,-
by seon on Jul 13, 2006 5:25pm"
I'd love if if people did that, but FiddleFaddleOnLSD is not one of those people.
"They make this place far less enjoyable than it could be.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Jul 12, 2006 3:39pm"
Just like you and texsue in your multiple karma attacks for no better reason than spite when you can't reply back with a factually based argument.
He is to me but a lot of people on this site just ignore me or attack me.
by seon on Thu Jul 13, 06 8:52pm
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Voted : Listen to them
I'll listen to most anything, to keep an open mind. But I would do my own research on the topic before listening to one person's opinion
by Kiki on Tue Aug 08, 06 2:02pm
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What I should do is walk away backwards, slowly and not make eye contact.
Always keep an open mind.
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