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COMMENTS:
Bonus question: How many hearts & minds will be won bombing or torturing civilians?
We won World War 2 without winning the hearts and minds of the Germans and Japanese, didn't we? A whole lot of civilians were killed if I remember right. Something on the order of millions.
FF: WW2 was a war against nations -- not 'terrorists.'
IMO, treating this as a conventional war is a recipe doomed to failure -- it will only end up inciting the very thing it attempts to eradicate.
Voted : Yes: We cannot 'win' without this
Actually, I'm not too sure we can "win" at *all*.
On that bonus question- what is "zero", Alex?
Voted : Yes: We cannot 'win' without this
No until we are able to destroy the root causes of terrorism which is lack of political freedom and a fear of the West we will not be able to win the war on terror.We need to convince the Muslim world that we are not the enemy.
Cathexis, I will respectfully point out that it is state sponsored terrorism that is the problem. From Saddam Hussein paying families of palestinian suicide bombers to Iran and Syria funding Hezbollah and providing them with weapons to Saudi Arabia not cracking down on the terrorists in their midst. Oh, and I forgot... The Taliban in Afghanistan who allowed Al Qaeda to have free reign in their country. Take out the state sponsors of terrorism and the movement falls apart. A terrorist movement, like any movement will fail without funding.
It isn't a conventional war in terms of tactics, but there are clearly defined sponsors of terrorism and other funders of this activity. In that sense, it is a conventional war.
I disagree that you have to win the "hearts and minds". Make being a terrorist or funder of them a one way street to financial collapse, destruction and death and the movement ends. Unfortunately, as the US debates about "hearts and minds", the terrorists and their sponsors continue. Maybe the US ought to consider why we don't have the will to stop the state sponsors of terrorists.
Fiddle you have to win hearts and mind because simply just killing the foot soldiers will not end the movement
because others will just raise up and take their place.
Voted : Yes: We cannot 'win' without this
But the Taliban had to go.
Voted : Yes: We cannot 'win' without this
Unfortunately the Taliban haven't gone anywhere, hence the continuing fighting in Afghanistan.
Terrorism is as symptom of hate, but also from oppresion.
You cannot eradicate an idea, no matter how many are killed.
Voted : Yes: We cannot 'win' without this
Oh indeed, winning hearts and minds is important. Historically, such a thing is won through the use of soft power. During the Cold War, the West broadcast all kinds of propaganda to the people in the Communist bloc. This was a huge component in winning the Cold War. Therefore, perhaps the West should INCREASE and INTENSIFY its propaganda campaigns in the Islamic world.
And FiddleFaddle is right about state-sponsored terrorism being an issue.
Unfortunaely no western infidel nation will ever win the "hearts and minds" of the Muslim civilians. It can't be done. Muslims are already pre-programmed to shun infidels, no matter what is offered, the Muslims will never trust infidel nations.
Quran 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust".
Voted : Yes: We cannot 'win' without this
It's an interesting strategy that USrael is taking in Lebanon: Destroying the country as a way of inspiring the Lebanese people to rise up and drive Hezbollah out of the country.
It's working great, so far. And the more children USrael blows up, the better it will work, too!
FF: While I disagree as to the degree to which 'state sponsorship' is a factor, as well as disagreeing with your conclusions, I will acknoweldge your opinion in the matter, since it does respond to the question posed.
Cathexis: The terrorists simply can't survive without the support of nations like Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc. Therefore, FF was correct.
Tell the soldiers in the field that the GWoT is a "fabrication." I think that they would disagree.
It's going to take a whole lot of convincing in order to get ordinary people to take up arms against their fellow natives. Most people just want to live their lives without bloodshed.
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